Honest Question: Why do we place a stigma on certain Sins?

[saturneptune]

The point was that one thinking sodomy worse than any other vice was mere self-righteousness. The reasoning behind it is a diabolical confusion of heaven and earth.

But the one who murders is sent there sooner (if justice is righteously administered) than the one who steals.

To awaken your natural aversion to it, if you still have it. What is a gay man other than one whose appetite is monstrous, perverted and vile? There is a stigma on that sin over that of, say, divorce, and there should be in secular society and the church.

The point is my natural aversion to the sin exceeds yours. I just do not have to write a detailed post of a step by step procedure.

 

[Aaron]

Glad you argee that stigma on certain sins is natural and right.

 

[Yeshua1]

Glad you argee that stigma on certain sins is natural and right.

Didn't the Lord thru moses and thru paul state that sexual sins are ALL bad, but Homosexual especially so, as thatis a perversion against natural order of creation?

 

[Zaac]

Didn't the Lord thru moses and thru paul state that sexual sins are ALL bad, but Homosexual especially so, as thatis a perversion against natural order of creation?

You ask as though you know He said that. So please show us where He says homosexual sins are especially bad.:thumbsup:

 

[Yeshua1]

You ask as though you know He said that. So please show us where He says homosexual sins are especially bad.:thumbsup:

Does Abomination to the lord, going against natural creation order, deserving of death those who practice those acts in a mindset of "God made us that way, just doing what comes naturally" and incite others to do the same are worthy of death?

Why this obcession with denying that God views this particual sin practice as really bad?

 

[Luke2427]

Because the Bible does.

All sin is not the same.

This "sin is sin" mess spewed about is empty "pop theology" and it has no roots in any Scripture in its proper context.

One deed can be extremely wicked done by one person and no where near as evil if done by another.

Jesus spoke of people receiving "GREATER damnation" because they ought to know better.

Stealing a piece of chicken is not the same as sodomizing a 9 year old boy.

And, I'm going to venture a guess at where you are going with this.

Yes, homosexuality is ABOMINABLE. Homosexuals are perverts. They are sick twisted people.

I am not an IFb type. I despise the likes of Fred Phelps. I believe in loving homosexuals and doing everything reasonably possible to reach them and help them. I have a cousin who is a lesbian.

I just helped a very homosexual (unabashed, wears make-up, flirts with guards at the prison, etc...) 22 year old convict get his GED.

So don't try to paint me as something I am not. I have lesbians that come to my church.

But I think if anybody thinks that their sin is the same as saying cuss words- then that person has his theological and Scriptural head in the sand.

It is perverse and vile and not on the same level as many other sins.

Some things are abominable. This is one of them.

 

[TennisNE1]

zaac,
since you asked an honest question, i am going to attempt to answer it without any reference of the past, which i have handled very badly in relation to you, and hope this post sets us on the right course.

This has been mentioned in many threads, but for starters, lets look at the subject as it exists in some local baptist churches, without reference to which type of baptist. In many churches, the subjects of dancing, drinking, gambling, smoking, tv, movies have been created as sins, when in fact, there is no sin basis in scripture. At the same time, the same church ignores gossip, as it is practiced freely. It is one of the most destructive sins to the unity of the local church and the cause of the gospel. One of the most pitiful scenes i have ever seen was a 300 pound church member stuffing his face full of food so fast at a pot luck, one could hardly understand what he was saying, but, if one listened closely, he was talking about a fellow church member buying lottery tickets.

If one has followed the threads lately, this has gotten so out of control, there was one thread implying people with tatoos were heathens, and another that stated that the intensity of singing a hymn was a reflection of a person's salvation. This whole mindset shouts loudly that someone does not understand the gospel, or how the lord views sin.

Now, on the subject you brought up about homosexual activity, why is it a stigma? Well, unlike dancing, smoking, etc, it is without a doubt a sin, and a disguisting one. The reason it is a stigma above other sins is because most of us do not engage in that sin. Yet, how many have cheated on their spouses either physically, or how jesus mentions in matthew when he talks about lusting after a woman. My guess is that those males guilty of that sin approach 100%. In the eyes of the lord, it is no more a noble act than the most revolting homosexual act one can imagine. Yet, in our warped set of standards, we give the lustful thoughts a pass, and condemn the homosexual to hell for eternity.

Zaac, you mention another sin that really strikes a chord with me, those who have been saved ten, twenty, forty, or fifty years, that have never gone on visitation, been on a mission trip, or bothered to tell one person about the good news of jesus christ. They have sat on their dead butts for decades and not lifted one finger for the lord. They are usually the same ones that never help with church meals, drive the van, visit the sick, help the poor or encourage anyone.

In summary, we set up stigmas to make ourselves holier than thou. There is no excuse for it. I know it takes other forms in other denominations, but we are baptists, and this is where our problems are. Every pastor should be charged with knocking down all of these barriers, including the power cliques in his local church.

Zaac, this is as honest as i know how to answer the question, and hope you will take this as an end to our disagreements so we can behave like christian brothers.

love love love love this post!!!!!!!

 

[Yeshua1]

Because the Bible does.

All sin is not the same.

This "sin is sin" mess spewed about is empty "pop theology" and it has no roots in any Scripture in its proper context.

One deed can be extremely wicked done by one person and no where near as evil if done by another.

Jesus spoke of people receiving "GREATER damnation" because they ought to know better.

Stealing a piece of chicken is not the same as sodomizing a 9 year old boy.

And, I'm going to venture a guess at where you are going with this.

Yes, homosexuality is ABOMINABLE. Homosexuals are perverts. They are sick twisted people.

I am not an IFb type. I despise the likes of Fred Phelps. I believe in loving homosexuals and doing everything reasonably possible to reach them and help them. I have a cousin who is a lesbian.

I just helped a very homosexual (unabashed, wears make-up, flirts with guards at the prison, etc...) 22 year old convict get his GED.

So don't try to paint me as something I am not. I have lesbians that come to my church.

But I think if anybody thinks that their sin is the same as saying cuss words- then that person has his theological and Scriptural head in the sand.

It is perverse and vile and not on the same level as many other sins.

Some things are abominable. This is one of them.

Homosexuality as apracticed lifestyle is ONLY sin that seems to be acceptable even in many churches as 'OK", just imagine trying to see murderers/raptists as 'acceptable living practices"

 

[Zaac]

Homosexuality as apracticed lifestyle is ONLY sin that seems to be acceptable even in many churches as 'OK", just imagine trying to see murderers/raptists as 'acceptable living practices"

So is gossiping. So is coveting. So is slandering. So is prescription drug abuse. So is gluttony, and on and on.

there are a lot of things that are "equally practiced" as a lifestyle then. Prescription drug abuse is out of control in the church. Yet these folks popping their prescribed pain pills have the nerve to turn up their noses at the folks struggling with the cocaine or meth addiction.

Nobody is saying make sin an acceptable living practice. That would be anti-Christ. But treat sin as sin and stop trying to make folks feel as though they are the worst of the worst.

Their sin won't send them to hell any faster than anyone else's.

 

[Yeshua1]

So is gossiping. So is coveting. So is slandering. So is prescription drug abuse. So is gluttony, and on and on.

there are a lot of things that are "equally practiced" as a lifestyle then. Prescription drug abuse is out of control in the church. Yet these folks popping their prescribed pain pills have the nerve to turn up their noses at the folks struggling with the cocaine or meth addiction.

Nobody is saying make sin an acceptable living practice. That would be anti-Christ. But treat sin as sin and stop trying to make folks feel as though they are the worst of the worst.

Their sin won't send them to hell any faster than anyone else's.

Do you know any other sin that gets habitually practiced though that has approval granted to it/ that even in some churches is granted approval as being acceptable to God?

my fault is NOT towards a person caught up in that sin, but to the churches/ministers that approve it as being acceptable to God, that are lieing against God and scripture in saying that!

Jesus died to save you while in that sin, but also gives you grace to get out of that sin!

I want to see the church say to people that we all have areas that we need to deal with God about, that we all need to seek Gods Grace and forgiveness and grow. its just that Homosexuality seems to be the one that gets "hands off" fr many see that they have no need/desire to change their ways!

 

[Zaac]

Do you know any other sin that gets habitually practiced though that has approval granted to it/ that even in some churches is granted approval as being acceptable to God?

Did you miss the ones I listed? They get that treatment and the church might as well say they are acceptable because it's running rampant in the church and nothing is ever done.

my fault is NOT towards a person caught up in that sin, but to the churches/ministers that approve it as being acceptable to God, that are lieing against God and scripture in saying that!

No one is advocating that preachers of the Gospel do anything other than preach the Gospel. But preaching the Gospel does not entail turning certain sinners into lepers. How can the church not see that we have done this?

My goodness. If Jesus Christ had not snatched each of us from that cliff of destruction by sending someone who didn't skimp on telling us the truth, but who also showed us that even our sin could be redeemed by Jesus.

With all the name calling and labeling some sin as the worst of the worst, we do nothing to point people to the hope that is Christ.

All of Scripture testifies of Jesus and what He did during His earthly ministry. Where did He ever make the outcasts...the lepers feel as though they were the worst sinners ,seemingly beyond redemption?

Are those not the very ones who reacted to His loving approach? His gentleness?his touch when no one else was willing to step out and touch them?

I tell you, this is a wicked thing that the Church keeps doing. It's time to let sin be sin and wrap our arms around these folks and let the Holy spirit work through us to pull them into the Kingdom Family.:thumbsup:

Jesus died to save you while in that sin, but also gives you grace to get out of that sin!

For sure. But you tell a child that they are worthless enough times...you tell a child enough times that you wish they were never born...you tell a person enough times that they are abhorrent, the worst of the worst, God will never use you...you tell a person that enough times and they will start to believe it.

That's the face the Church has put on itself when it comes to certain sins. Shame on us for thinking that anyone is gonna be beaten down and rejected, and then we tell them they need Jesus. Gosh if we've got Jesus and we treat them like that again and again, what would they want with our Jesus? Ain't no difference in what it looks like the average Baptist is saying and what Fred Phelps says. And that is sad.

I want to see the church say to people that we all have areas that we need to deal with God about, that we all need to seek Gods Grace and forgiveness and grow. its just that Homosexuality seems to be the one that gets "hands off" fr many see that they have no need/desire to change their ways!

Perhaps it seems that way because for decades the church has treated them as outcasts and so to deal with their brokenness...in order to give themselves a reason to just stay alive, they have to create their own truth. People do it all the time.

Wanna stop the pain? Drink.
Wanna stop the pain? Do drugs.
Wanna stop the pain and feel wanted? Sleep around.
Wanna stop the pain of being accepted? Find a community of folks who accept you as you are and who tell you there's nothing wrong.

It's people dealing with their brokenness in whatever way they can in order to survive.

Let's meet them there Just as Jesus did and show them His Love and the ONLY BEST way.:thumbsup:

 

[Yeshua1]

Did you miss the ones I listed? They get that treatment and the church might as well say they are acceptable because it's running rampant in the church and nothing is ever done.



No one is advocating that preachers of the Gospel do anything other than preach the Gospel. But preaching the Gospel does not entail turning certain sinners into lepers. How can the church not see that we have done this?

My goodness. If Jesus Christ had not snatched each of us from that cliff of destruction by sending someone who didn't skimp on telling us the truth, but who also showed us that even our sin could be redeemed by Jesus.

With all the name calling and labeling some sin as the worst of the worst, we do nothing to point people to the hope that is Christ.

All of Scripture testifies of Jesus and what He did during His earthly ministry. Where did He ever make the outcasts...the lepers feel as though they were the worst sinners ,seemingly beyond redemption?

Are those not the very ones who reacted to His loving approach? His gentleness?his touch when no one else was willing to step out and touch them?

I tell you, this is a wicked thing that the Church keeps doing. It's time to let sin be sin and wrap our arms around these folks and let the Holy spirit work through us to pull them into the Kingdom Family.:thumbsup:



For sure. But you tell a child that they are worthless enough times...you tell a child enough times that you wish they were never born...you tell a person enough times that they are abhorrent, the worst of the worst, God will never use you...you tell a person that enough times and they will start to believe it.

That's the face the Church has put on itself when it comes to certain sins. Shame on us for thinking that anyone is gonna be beaten down and rejected, and then we tell them they need Jesus. Gosh if we've got Jesus and we treat them like that again and again, what would they want with our Jesus? Ain't no difference in what it looks like the average Baptist is saying and what Fred Phelps says. And that is sad.



Perhaps it seems that way because for decades the church has treated them as outcasts and so to deal with their brokenness...in order to give themselves a reason to just stay alive, they have to create their own truth. People do it all the time.

Wanna stop the pain? Drink.
Wanna stop the pain? Do drugs.
Wanna stop the pain and feel wanted? Sleep around.
Wanna stop the pain of being accepted? Find a community of folks who accept you as you are and who tell you there's nothing wrong.

It's people dealing with their brokenness in whatever way they can in order to survive.

Let's meet them there Just as Jesus did and show them His Love and the ONLY BEST way.:thumbsup:

God already though declared what he thought of an active homosexual lifestyle, hasen't He?

 

[righteousdude2]

In a way He smoked them...with

God already though declared what he thought of an active homosexual lifestyle, hasen't He?

...fire and brimstone! :thumbs:

 

[Yeshua1]

The thing is that God declares that active and unrepenent Homosexuality behaviour is "something' that made it really abominable to Him....

he loves those who partake and stay in it, but also has hatred towards that sin!

 

[righteousdude2]

NOW....that makes no sense...

The thing is that God declares that active and unrepenent Homosexuality behaviour is "something' that made it really abominable to Him....

he loves those who partake and stay in it, but also has hatred towards that sin!

While I agree that He loves the sinner [regardless of the sin], I also know that their rebellion and rejection of the Word, His Grace, and the new life we receive through Jesus; will doom them to hell!

I am not sure what you are saying Yeshua, but if you are saying what I said, we have alignment. If not, you should check the Word, and give me the exact Scripture(s), and I mean as many as you can find, that support your stand! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Yeshua1]

We agree. in that Homosexual acts, as wellas any other sexual acts outside of marriage, are the result of rebellion against God, and praticing sinning!

 

[Zaac]

We agree. in that Homosexual acts, as wellas any other sexual acts outside of marriage, are the result of rebellion against God, and praticing sinning!

That applies to all acts of sin.

 

[Yeshua1]

That applies to all acts of sin.

True, but doesn't the Church HAVE to agree with God that Homosexual behaviour is NOT right, nor alternative lifestyle acceptable to practice, but is sin to come out from?

 

[Zaac]

True, but doesn't the Church HAVE to agree with God that Homosexual behaviour is NOT right, nor alternative lifestyle acceptable to practice, but is sin to come out from?

The Church doesn't have to agree with God and in today's climate often doesn't. However God doesn't need us to agree with Him.:smilewinkgrin:

The Church should be preaching God's truth, and God's truth shows that ALL sin is sin of which to come out from. And no, it's not acceptable to practice anything than a 100% HOLY lifestyle. Of this, every man ever born fails.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Church doesn't have to agree with God and in today's climate often doesn't. However God doesn't need us to agree with Him.:smilewinkgrin:

The Church should be preaching God's truth, and God's truth shows that ALL sin is sin of which to come out from. And no, it's not acceptable to practice anything than a 100% HOLY lifestyle. Of this, every man ever born fails.

Are you willing to say that practicing a Homosexual lifestyle is sinning against God, not an acceptable 'alternative lifestyle?"