Hooray For 'Michigan State' Professor!

[KenH]

Tit for tat, brother.

Worldly people might do that but Christians are not to do so according to Christ Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[Jon-Marc]

I thought we Christians were supposed to advocate good manners. As I said I agree with the idea of protesting the protest; however, one can maintain civility and good manners while doing so.

Jesus didn't always use good manners when speaking to the Jewish leaders. He called them vipers and hypocrites, and even said to them, "Ye are of your father the devil."

 

[donnA]

I never said any such thing and you know it. You just don't like it that I don't go along with your radical right-wing agenda. Therefore, you claim that I said something that I neither said nor implied.

whatever...

 

[donnA]

Why the need for all the finger pointing? :laugh:

You sure seem to know a lot about this religion, you must hang out with your many Muslim friends!? The doctor mentioned earlier, is he a terrorist? If so do you think we should tell him?

Perhaps a good place for Christians to start pointing fingers is at our own churches who claim the name of Jesus, yet live nothing him? Maybe, just maybe if we got our own house in order, there wouldn't be so much need for fingerpointing?

Actually we don't have muslims near by. And I would not be friends with them if they were, they are of a religion who wants me dead because I am not muslim. If you do not think we need to call a false religion a false religion, thats your problem. But what it is is acceptance that a false religion is as legitimate as Christianity.

 

[donnA]

Since muslims are assorted races and colors of people, then calling a muslim a terrorist can not possibly be considered racist.

 

[donnA]

Jesus didn't always use good manners when speaking to the Jewish leaders. He called them vipers and hypocrites, and even said to them, "Ye are of your father the devil."

Sounds like a real lack of good manners doesn't it. If Jesus were on this board and said that people would blast Him for not being polite.

 

[KenH]

And I would not be friends with them

So you refuse to be friends with anyone who you don't consider to be saved?

 

[pinoybaptist]

Worldly people might do that but Christians are not to do so according to Christ Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount.

Wrong words I used, KenH, or maybe I put them at the wrong place in my sentences.

What I meant was that they are as guilty of doing what they so furiously accuse the professor of doing, or what you and some here think the professor has done which is do a sweeping accusation of all Muslims.

 

[donnA]

I agree with that, but I do not see that in the op. It was not about calling a false religion false, it was blasting all muslims for the actions of other muslims.

One thing we christians needs to get used too, islam is false and they hate us, this is what their religion is, this is what they teach. When a person claims to be muslim, then this is what they are claiming.

 

[donnA]

So you refuse to be friends with anyone who you don't consider to be saved?

No, I refuse to be freinds with anyone who wants to kill me. Remember their religion tells them to kill me. Their holy book demands they kill me.
No sorry I am not friends with people like this, who would murder christians.

 

[donnA]

I've been thinking lately. With all the threads we've had about islam, and christians here defending muslims, we should be polite, never call them a false religion, they're such peaceful and loving people, etc, it wouldn't surprise me if we found out there were secret muslims on the board.

 

[donnA]

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you."

Muslim:C9B1N31 "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought."

Qur'an:48:16 "Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: 'You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture."

Qur'an:47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

Tabari VI:139 "Allah had given his Messenger permission to fight by revealing the verse 'And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah.'"
Ishaq:550 "The Muslims met them with their swords. They cut through many arms and skulls. Only confused cries and groans could be heard over our battle roars and snarling."

Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory."
Muslim:C9B1N33 "The Prophet said: 'I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'"

Qur'an:2:193 "Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no hostility except against infidel disbelievers."



Well, I don't know about anyone else, but this is just so loving and peaceful it just makes me all giddy.
These are the false allah's instructions to muslims to kill all un beleivers unless they turn to allah and forsake Jesus.




Qur'an:4:94 "Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in Allah's Cause, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who greets you: 'You are not a believer!' Coveting the chance profits of this life (so that you may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils and booty."
Instructions to fool you.


Qur'an:4:104 "And do not relent in pursuing the enemy." (us)

Any muslim who hopes to go to heaven and be loved and highly rewarded will obey allah's instructions.


" Verse 49:15 makes this very clear. "The true believers are those that have faith in Allah and His apostle, and never doubt; and who fight with their wealth and with their persons in the cause of Allah. Such are those whose faith is true." Please note the requirement to fight in order to be a Muslim. Muhammad makes it very clear that any one who claims to be a Muslim and refuses to fight and kill the unbelievers is not a Muslim and is branded by Muhammad as a hypocrite. Muhammad also requires all Muslims to search out and kill all hypocrites. Muhammad hated hypocrites even worse than he did Jews and Christians. Hypocrites are the worst enemy of Islam and are considered traitors. According to Muhammad, you cannot be a liberal or moderate Muslim. There are only orthodox Muslims and hypocrites. In the Koran, there are only three groups of people. These are Muslims, hypocrites, and non-Muslims."

http://hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/koran2.html

 

[donnA]

By all means lets be friends.

"The following quotes are taken from the most trusted Yusufali’s translation of the Qur’an. The Qur’an tells us: not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (5:51), kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (9:123), fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (9:5). "

 

[donnA]

“Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.” Koran 47:4

“Muslims must not take the infidels as friends.” Koran 3:28
“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.” Koran 8:12
“Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.” Koran 8:60 (even airplaines)

Sounds like a pretty friendly bunch.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

Once again, it all boils down to money.

Back in the 60's when I was younger and full of raging hormones, I formed a gang in one of the busy districts of my home city.
Every store, hardware, restaurant, movie house, meat and fish business within a 5 km radius of our turf had to pay protection, or they get a "gang war" right in front of their business and, tough luck, their merchandise gets wasted. Protective tax ?

The "take" was so good, corrupt cops started protecting us, because we gave them "protective taxes" (?).
I guess that was very muslim-like of us, wot ?

Protective tax is also called "revolutionary tax" by leftist "nationalists" in my country. Same principle as the one in the koran. They don't submit, kill them. They submit but don't convert ? Fine, as long as they pay.

One of the causes of the early "Christian"-Muslim conflicts in my country, too, you know, that koran clause.

A "Christian" settler settles in a Muslim area but does not become Muslim, well, he falls under the "protection" of whoever is the datu or sultan of that area, or maybe the high-ranking Imam.

A Muslim can then come into his yard, and cart off any number of his chickens in any given month, and there's nothing much he can do about it, because that's his "protective tax".

Nice guys, these bunch.

I've no problem being cordial with them, or hospitable, but I will NEVER trust a Muslim.

Rule: Don't let them have your back. When you're in their area, sleep with one eye open, one ear cocked.

That's not being un-Christian. That's living in a fallen world.

Nothing in the Bible says that if one is a Christian, one should be a push-over.

 

[chuck2336]

Tit for tat, brother.

Do not get me wrong I am not taking up for the radical muslims or any muslim for that matter.

What I am asking is are we not called to a higher standard than those who don't know Jesus?

Are we not to employ grace and mercy even to those who do not extend it to us?

Because from the sound of some of these post on this thread some feel like Jesus was wrong when he said "Father forgive them..." Instead he should have said Father, "tit for tat, get them all" Jesus must be kicking himself for getting that wrong! Forgive them! What was he thinking?

 

[tinytim]

Chuck, if someone came to your house and was threatening to rape your daughter, and behead her, would you say, ' I forgive you, go ahead?"

I have a feeling you would do what I would do...

KIll them!

Islamists came to America... killed many, many people... and are still a threat... we have to be ready to defend the innocent.

If somone wants to kill my loved ones.. they are not getting in my home.
If they try to force their way in, they WILL die...

I will protect my loved ones, and I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to kill another person trying to kill my wife or children...
I would kill them, and let God sort it out.

They will die...
It is called self defense... and defending the innocent.. and God has made provision for that in the Bible.

That is what war is about....
We are at war with these islamists because they attacked us.
They attacked our loved ones, here on American soil.

They will pay, and pay dearly...
Americans have the God given right to defend the innocent, and protect our interests...

Don't be fooled for a minute, Islamists wants us destroyed...
Knowing this doesn't make us unloving.. it makes us wise.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Do not get me wrong I am not taking up for the radical muslims or any muslim for that matter.

What I am asking is are we not called to a higher standard than those who don't know Jesus?

Are we not to employ grace and mercy even to those who do not extend it to us?

Because from the sound of some of these post on this thread some feel like Jesus was wrong when he said "Father forgive them..." Instead he should have said Father, "tit for tat, get them all" Jesus must be kicking himself for getting that wrong! Forgive them! What was he thinking?

Once again, my apologies.
I used the wrong words, or phrase.
That "tit for tat" thing.
I'm not saying a kill for a kill.
I'm saying that those "indignant" Muslims have numbers among them who are as guilty of the same things they are accusing the professor of: making sweeping accusations.
Only, in their case, they not only make sweeping accusations, they also murder indiscriminately.

Higher standards do not include just laying my head on their chopping block when it is not I who have committed the crime/s against them simply because I'm a Christian.

Loving them does not mean respecting their unrespectable religion, or being politically correct and not offending them when they speak indiscriminately without regards to whether they offend others or not.

Like I said, I have no problem being cordial, polite, or courteous to them, but don't ask me to give them my back just because I'm a Christian.

 

[chuck2336]

sorry for the double post

 

[chuck2336]

Chuck, if someone came to your house and was threatening to rape your daughter, and behead her, would you say, ' I forgive you, go ahead?"

I have a feeling you would do what I would do...

KIll them!

Islamists came to America... killed many, many people... and are still a threat... we have to be ready to defend the innocent.

If somone wants to kill my loved ones.. they are not getting in my home.
If they try to force their way in, they WILL die...

I will protect my loved ones, and I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to kill another person trying to kill my wife or children...
I would kill them, and let God sort it out.

They will die...
It is called self defense... and defending the innocent.. and God has made provision for that in the Bible.

That is what war is about....
We are at war with these islamists because they attacked us.
They attacked our loved ones, here on American soil.

They will pay, and pay dearly...
Americans have the God given right to defend the innocent, and protect our interests...

Don't be fooled for a minute, Islamists wants us destroyed...
Knowing this doesn't make us unloving.. it makes us wise.

Tim I agree with most of what you said. Sure I would protect my family from whoever tries to hurt them. Regardless of thier faith group.(fact is I wouldnt have to, my wife is meaner than I am). I was car jacked one time. A young man held a gun to my head and told me to get out or he was going to kill me and my family. I did as I was told and he took my car and left. The police caught him and at his trial this mans pastor stood up and said he was just going through a hard time. Yes, this young man went to church just about every week and was in his pastors words " a fine christian young man, who made a bad decision" Yet while I was in Kuwait I was greeted with cheers and smiles and gifts of appreciation. So do you see why I have a hard time with the whole being muslim makes them evil? Being Christian did not keep the gun away from my head.

How many here have ever even known a muslim? I do not mean I met one once, I mean KNOW a muslim. I dare say that most on this board have more to worry about white cheerleaders beating up our daughters, than we do a muslim attacking our family.

I am not questioning the evils that have been done in the vile name of islam.

What I am questioning is what seems to be an "all muslims must die" mentality in this thread. (not you, and no one in particular just an over all tone) This makes us no better than the muslims and last I checked we are called to be better. Sure the islam faith is against Christianity, and Christianity is against islam. But I believe the Bible is very clear on how we are to deal with our enemies.

Before 9-11 the largest attack against americans on american soil was not carried out by a muslim, but by our own. I believe I read somewhere that Mcveigh and his helpers claimed to be christians. In that part I may be wrong though I can not find where I read that.

Here is my point, islam is not our real enemy, satan is. IMO we are wasting energy hating on the muslims when we should be praying for them to come out of that evil faith.

To answer the question I have been asked privatly I will answer here. Yes I do have friends who are muslim. They have never been anything but respectful when it comes to my faith. I have led a few of them to Christ. I hear the remark coming now "then they do not belive the koran", no they do. They are not radical in thier beliefs though.

Why is it so hard for us to believe that there could be a muslim who is not wiring a bomb to their chest because "that is what they are told in the koran" But yet every Sunday we see folks in our churches calling themselves chistian yet they are not living by what they are told in our book of faith and we accept that as a normal thing.

Listen, I am not here to say anyone is "wrong". All I know is I will not be held accountable by God by what the muslims do or by what you do for that matter. But I will be held accountable for what I do and if I do not show the love of Jesus to all of those around me, even the muslims and I do not proclaim the gosple to everyone, even the muslims then I believe God will hold me accountable for not reachng out to whoever.

Thats all, I just think everything must come back to Jesus. All my thoughts, all of my actions, all of my efforts they all must reflect Him.

I am not "better" than anyone. The Lord has just been doing a lot in my heart where any kind of hatred is concerned. This is just some of what has come from my time with God.