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How 2 Cor 5:19 teaches limited atonement !

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Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
No they were never condemned, yes they were enemies, but it was not imputed to them. God doesnt condemned sin people He doesnt charge with sin. Not that they are not sinners, but God doesnt impute it to them 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Thats a Gospel Truth by the way !
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What you are posting is not biblical truth it is your imagined truth.

You call yourself a Calvinist and you do not even agree with Calvin.

God was in Christ. Some take this as meaning simply — God reconciled the world to himself in Christ; but the meaning is fuller and more comprehensive — first, that God was in Christ; and, secondly, that He {God} reconciled the world to himself by His {Christ'} intercession.

first, that God was in Christ. Hence the expression is equivalent to this — “Whereas God had withdrawn to a distance from us, He has drawn near to us in Christ, and thus Christ has become to us the true Emmanuel, and His coming is God’s drawing near to men.”

The second part of the statement points out the office of Christ — His being our propitiation, (1 John 2:2,) because out of Him, God is displeased with us all, inasmuch as we have revolted from righteousness. For what purpose, then, has God appeared to men in Christ? For the purpose of reconciliation.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Do you not believe the bible BF. All are sinners, all are condemned. There is not a special group that never sinned or were being held responsible for the sins they committed.

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,. Do you see an exclusion clause in there, no you do not.

Are you now going to forget the verse that Calvinists love to throw out as a proof text Rom 3:10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not.one; BF you are being inconsistent in your theology.

You are trying to build your theology on cherry picked verses and ignoring the rest of the bible. With that method it is not the bible you believe but yourself. That is a sure plan for disaster.
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Both the worlds in Jn 1:29 and 2 Cor 5:19 have had their sins taken away, they are guilt free, God has nothing to charge them with, no condemnation for that world.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
That is "your truth", but I do not believe in subjective truth.

God was in Christ not counting their sins against them. This means the world (mankind). Likewise, there is a ministry of reconciliation where we plead for men to be reconciled.

You are reading too much of your ideas into the text.
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Hi there, you dont have to believe it. The world referenced in 2 Cor 5:19 has no sin charged to it, no condemnation, but the world in 1 Cor 11:32 is condemned. And the world in 2 Cor 5:19 has never been condemned since Christ was condemned in its place. God isnt going to condemn anyone for whom He already condemned Christ for, thats unjust, double jeopardy
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
What you are posting is not biblical truth it is your imagined truth.

You call yourself a Calvinist and you do not even agree with Calvin.

God was in Christ. Some take this as meaning simply — God reconciled the world to himself in Christ; but the meaning is fuller and more comprehensive — first, that God was in Christ; and, secondly, that He {God} reconciled the world to himself by His {Christ'} intercession.

first, that God was in Christ. Hence the expression is equivalent to this — “Whereas God had withdrawn to a distance from us, He has drawn near to us in Christ, and thus Christ has become to us the true Emmanuel, and His coming is God’s drawing near to men.”

The second part of the statement points out the office of Christ — His being our propitiation, (1 John 2:2,) because out of Him, God is displeased with us all, inasmuch as we have revolted from righteousness. For what purpose, then, has God appeared to men in Christ? For the purpose of reconciliation.
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Part of the Gospel or word of reconciliation in 2 Cor 5:19 is that there is a world of people God has reconciled to Himself, not imputing their sins to them. You cant neglect that Gospel Truth, its clear as the noon day sun in 2 Cor 5:19
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Brightfame52 said:
Hi there, you dont have to believe it. The world referenced in 2 Cor 5:19 has no sin charged to it, no condemnation, but the world in 1 Cor 11:32 is condemned. And the world in 2 Cor 5:19 has never been condemned since Christ was condemned in its place. God isnt going to condemn anyone for whom He already condemned Christ for, thats unjust, double jeopardy
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It isn't "double jeopardy".
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Both the worlds in Jn 1:29 and 2 Cor 5:19 have had their sins taken away, they are guilt free, God has nothing to charge them with, no condemnation for that world.
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So now you are promoting sinless perfection. You have a strange way of understanding scripture. The fact that your view is unbiblical does not seem to matter to you.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Part of the Gospel or word of reconciliation in 2 Cor 5:19 is that there is a world of people God has reconciled to Himself, not imputing their sins to them. You cant neglect that Gospel Truth, its clear as the noon day sun in 2 Cor 5:19
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Notice what it says in vs 18 "...God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ..."

But what did you say to @JonC "the world in 2 Cor 5:19 has never been condemned since Christ was condemned in its place. God isnt going to condemn anyone for whom He already condemned Christ for..."

But by your logic billions of people were born sinless so the question is why did Paul have a ministry of reconciliation?
You want people saved without faith in the risen Christ.

The bible says those that trust in the risen Son are no longer condemned.

Your error is that you are confusing atonement with salvation. Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world at the cross but one is only saved when they trust in the risen Christ.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
1Co 15:15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up; if in fact the dead do not rise.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

You are teaching a faithless theology. A false gospel.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
So now you are promoting sinless perfection. You have a strange way of understanding scripture. The fact that your view is unbiblical does not seem to matter to you.
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Its not about being sinless perfection, its about the worlds have no sin charged to them, they're sinners, but not guilty sinners. Sin cant be charged to them, it wont be their eternal ruin. However in Christ, not in themselves, they are sinlessly Perfect
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Notice what it says in vs 18 "...God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ..."

But what did you say to @JonC "the world in 2 Cor 5:19 has never been condemned since Christ was condemned in its place. God isnt going to condemn anyone for whom He already condemned Christ for..."

But by your logic billions of people were born sinless so the question is why did Paul have a ministry of reconciliation?
You want people saved without faith in the risen Christ.

The bible says those that trust in the risen Son are no longer condemned.

Your error is that you are confusing atonement with salvation. Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world at the cross but one is only saved when they trust in the risen Christ.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
1Co 15:15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up; if in fact the dead do not rise.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

You are teaching a faithless theology. A false gospel.
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The world in 2 Cor 5:19 doesn have their trepasses charged to them, theyre blessed. Just like this man Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
The world in 2 Cor 5:19 doesn have their trepasses charged to them, theyre blessed. Just like this man Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
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One is only blessed in the future after they have trusted in Christ, not before they do as you seem to think.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Silverhair said:
Well you have just proven, by your stance on sinless perfection, that you can not be saved as just looking over your posts we can see that you sin. Even in this we see the sin of pride. KY you need to repent and ask for God's forgiveness for your sinful nature.
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...didn't read the link, eh?
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Silverhair said:
Actually I did look at it
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...no, you didn't get the BIBLICAL gist of it, your tunnel vision Calvinist bashing blinders hinders you greatly. Go back to that Exodus generation that had done everything God had told them NOT to do and consider HOW, JUST HOW, God had not beheld iniquity in Israel.

But maybe this is too deep for you for you to connect the truths of the old with the new. He doesn't change, you know.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
...no, you didn't get the BIBLICAL gist of it, your tunnel vision Calvinist bashing blinders hinders you greatly. Go back to that Exodus generation that had done everything God had told them NOT to do and consider HOW, JUST HOW, God had not beheld iniquity in Israel.

But maybe this is too deep for you for you to connect the truths of the old with the new. He doesn't change, you know.
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Only in those that had trusted in Him KY. Whether in the OT or NT one is only considered right with God through faith in Him. Faith first then righteousness, so simple a child can understand it.
 
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