How 2 Cor 5:19 teaches limited atonement !

[Brightfame52]

He takes away - This denotes his “bearing” the sins of the world, or the sufferings which made an atonement for sin. Compare Isa_53:4; 1Jn_3:5; 1Pe_2:24. He takes away sin by “bearing” in his own body the sufferings which God appointed to show his sense of the evil of sin, thus magnifying the law, and rendering it consistent for him to pardon.

Of the world - Of all mankind, Jew and Gentile. His work was not to be confined to the Jew, but was also to benefit the Gentile; it was not confined to any one part of the world, but was designed to open the way of pardon to all men. He was the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, 1Jn_2:2.

That world of Jn 1:29; 2 Cor 5:19 have no sin to be charged to them, they are saved from their sins.

 

[Brightfame52]

Well since Christ bore the sins of all men then all men are blessed, correct? Your theology is flawed BF.

How can those who are condemned be blessed ? Remember there is also a condemned world 1 Cor 11:32.

The blessed world isnt condemned, its sins are not charged to it, so no condemnation. Duh 2 Cor 5:19

 

[JonC]

I know what it means. What you probably dont realize is those for whom Christ died, legally died with Him for their sins, thats why they cant be charged to them any more, they are taken out of the way, all their sins and the consequences of their sins are taken away.

You are reading your theology into the text.

The verse isn't speaking of individual reconciliation of individuals to God but God reconciling man to Himself, not counting their sins against them.

In the passage this is the basis that individuals can be reconciled (by the ministry of reconciliation).

 

[Van]

I see we are on page 4 of this discussion.

Limited Atonement as understood by Calvinism, is never supported in any scripture. As JonC has observed it must be read into the text.

God is reconciling humanity one sinner at a time. That does not mean everyone will be reconciled. God's promise is that everyone believing into Him will be reconciled. Thus only if God credits a person's faith as righteousness, will God translocate the individual into Christ's spiritual body where they undergo the washing of regeneration, reconciling that member of humanity.

 

[Brightfame52]

You are reading your theology into the text.

The verse isn't speaking of individual reconciliation of individuals to God but God reconciling man to Himself, not counting their sins against them.

In the passage this is the basis that individuals can be reconciled (by the ministry of reconciliation).

You can call it what you want, there are two different worlds. The world in 2 Cor 5:19 doesnt have sin charged to it, so its Justified from all sin, through Christ,

But there is a world of people that are condemned in their sins, they going to hell 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

 

[JonC]

You can call it what you want, there are two different worlds. The world in 2 Cor 5:19 doesnt have sin charged to it, so its Justified from all sin, through Christ,

But there is a world of people that are condemned in their sins, they going to hell 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Yep. We are no longer condemned.

Romans 8:1–2 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

We were once condemned, under the law of sin and death. But in Christ we are no longer condemned.

2 Corinthians 5:18–20 that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation

 

[Brightfame52]

Yep. We are no longer condemned.

Romans 8:1–2 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

We were once condemned, under the law of sin and death. But in Christ we are no longer condemned.

2 Corinthians 5:18–20 that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation

Yep. We are no longer condemned.

Romans 8:1–2 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

We were once condemned, under the law of sin and death. But in Christ we are no longer condemned.

2 Corinthians 5:18–20 that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation

Some people are condemned, a whole world of people 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

The world of people in 2 Cor 5:19 isnt condemned, its free from sins charges.

 

[JonC]

Some people are condemned, a whole world of people 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

The world of people in 2 Cor 5:19 isnt condemned, its free from sins charges.

To clarify - you are denying that we were once condemned but now, in Christ, we are not....right?

 

[Brightfame52]

To clarify - you are denying that we were once condemned but now, in Christ, we are not....right?

Those for whom Christ died were never condemned, they were never charged with sin 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

 

[JonC]

Those for whom Christ died were never condemned, they were never charged with sin 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So these were not the people who were condemned but now are without condemnation in Christ that Paul spoke of.

Who made up the "once condemned but no longer condemned" people (those to whom Paul addressed the Roman epistle?

And how do these no longer condemned people fit in with the people who were never condemned?

Why must men, if individually reconciled to God in 2 Cor 5:19, be reconciled?

 

[Silverhair]

Those for whom Christ died were never condemned, they were never charged with sin 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So are you saying they were born sinless?

Because if they were born in sin then they were condemned at one point.

 

[Brightfame52]

So these were not the people who were condemned but now are without condemnation in Christ that Paul spoke of.

Who made up the "once condemned but no longer condemned" people (those to whom Paul addressed the Roman epistle?

And how do these no longer condemned people fit in with the people who were never condemned?

Why must men, if individually reconciled to God in 2 Cor 5:19, be reconciled?

Those in the world of 2 Cor 5:19 were never condemned, for God didn't charge them with their sins. How many times do I have to tell you this?

 

[Brightfame52]

So are you saying they were born sinless?

Because if they were born in sin then they were condemned at one point.

Already explained

 

[Brightfame52]

How 2 Cor 5:19 teaches limited atonement !2
2 Cor 5:17-19

17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Now the World in 2 Cor 5:19 cant possibly be all without exception because those of this World are new creatures in Christ Vs 17.

All men Christ died for Vs 14-15 are new creatures, their sins have been put away, and they are new creatures by Justification and reconciliation !

Now this cannot be said of the world that shall be condemned 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Now is the reconciled world in 2 Cor 5:19 the same as the condemned world in 1 Cor 11:32 ? The answer is NO !

 

[JonC]

Those in the world of 2 Cor 5:19 were never condemned, for God didn't charge them with their sins. How many times do I have to tell you this?

You don't have to keep telling me. I know my choices....you or God. I've made my decision on who to believe, and it isn't you.

Paul states that we (those in Christ) are no longer condemned. To be no longer condemned means that we once were condemned.

Paul states that we were once not "in Christ", but we are placed "in Christ". It is only "in Christ" that we have no condemnation.

The verse we were looking at states that God, in Christ, was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their sins...but also that men (individually) needed to be reconciled.


You have placed yourself in a unique position by asking members to choose between your ideas based on lifted verses or God's Word as it is written.

 

[Brightfame52]

@JonC

You don't have to keep telling me.

Then y do you keep asking ? There is a world in 2 Cor 5:19 that is free from sin and condemnation because God doesnt charge it, and all who belong to it, Gods chosen, with sin. Where no sin is, no condemnation. This world has never been condemned, its always been loved by God Jn 3:16,17

Now on the other hand, there is a condemned world of individuals, God doesnt Love, and Christ didnt die for 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

 

[Brightfame52]

@JonC

Paul states that we (those in Christ) are no longer condemned. To be no longer condemned means that we once were condemned.

Paul states that we were once not "in Christ", but we are placed "in Christ". It is only "in Christ" that we have no condemnation.

Okay, is the world that God Loved in Jn 3:16 in Christ ?

 

[Silverhair]

Already explained

Your answer is from your man-made view. You should try reading the bible without your calvinist presupposition.

 

[Brightfame52]

Your answer is from your man-made view. You should try reading the bible without your calvinist presupposition.

I answered it already.

 

[Silverhair]

I answered it already.

Actually you did not. All you have done is quote the scripture and tell us we do not know what it says. You pull verses out of context or grab verses that have the same word in them and think that supports your view.

The bible does not support your errant view BF.