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Featured How 2 Cor 5:19 teaches limited atonement !

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Mar 21, 2024.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    That world of Jn 1:29; 2 Cor 5:19 have no sin to be charged to them, they are saved from their sins.
     
    #61 Brightfame52, Mar 25, 2024
  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    How can those who are condemned be blessed ? Remember there is also a condemned world 1 Cor 11:32.

    The blessed world isnt condemned, its sins are not charged to it, so no condemnation. Duh 2 Cor 5:19
     
    #62 Brightfame52, Mar 25, 2024
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You are reading your theology into the text.

    The verse isn't speaking of individual reconciliation of individuals to God but God reconciling man to Himself, not counting their sins against them.

    In the passage this is the basis that individuals can be reconciled (by the ministry of reconciliation).
     
    #63 JonC, Mar 25, 2024
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I see we are on page 4 of this discussion.

    Limited Atonement as understood by Calvinism, is never supported in any scripture. As JonC has observed it must be read into the text.

    God is reconciling humanity one sinner at a time. That does not mean everyone will be reconciled. God's promise is that everyone believing into Him will be reconciled. Thus only if God credits a person's faith as righteousness, will God translocate the individual into Christ's spiritual body where they undergo the washing of regeneration, reconciling that member of humanity.
     
    #64 Van, Mar 25, 2024
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You can call it what you want, there are two different worlds. The world in 2 Cor 5:19 doesnt have sin charged to it, so its Justified from all sin, through Christ,

    But there is a world of people that are condemned in their sins, they going to hell 1 Cor 11:32

    32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
     
    #65 Brightfame52, Mar 25, 2024
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yep. We are no longer condemned.

    Romans 8:1–2 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

    We were once condemned, under the law of sin and death. But in Christ we are no longer condemned.

    2 Corinthians 5:18–20 that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation
     
    #66 JonC, Mar 25, 2024
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Some people are condemned, a whole world of people 1 Cor 11:32

    32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

    The world of people in 2 Cor 5:19 isnt condemned, its free from sins charges.
     
    #67 Brightfame52, Mar 25, 2024
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    To clarify - you are denying that we were once condemned but now, in Christ, we are not....right?
     
    #68 JonC, Mar 25, 2024
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Those for whom Christ died were never condemned, they were never charged with sin 2 Cor 5:19

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    Rom 8:33

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
     
    #69 Brightfame52, Mar 25, 2024
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    So these were not the people who were condemned but now are without condemnation in Christ that Paul spoke of.

    Who made up the "once condemned but no longer condemned" people (those to whom Paul addressed the Roman epistle?

    And how do these no longer condemned people fit in with the people who were never condemned?

    Why must men, if individually reconciled to God in 2 Cor 5:19, be reconciled?
     
    #70 JonC, Mar 25, 2024
  11. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So are you saying they were born sinless?

    Because if they were born in sin then they were condemned at one point.
     
    #71 Silverhair, Mar 25, 2024
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Those in the world of 2 Cor 5:19 were never condemned, for God didn't charge them with their sins. How many times do I have to tell you this?
     
    #72 Brightfame52, Mar 26, 2024
  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Already explained
     
    #73 Brightfame52, Mar 26, 2024
  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    How 2 Cor 5:19 teaches limited atonement !2
    2 Cor 5:17-19

    17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    Now the World in 2 Cor 5:19 cant possibly be all without exception because those of this World are new creatures in Christ Vs 17.

    All men Christ died for Vs 14-15 are new creatures, their sins have been put away, and they are new creatures by Justification and reconciliation !

    Now this cannot be said of the world that shall be condemned 1 Cor 11:32

    32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

    Now is the reconciled world in 2 Cor 5:19 the same as the condemned world in 1 Cor 11:32 ? The answer is NO !
     
    #74 Brightfame52, Mar 26, 2024
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You don't have to keep telling me. I know my choices....you or God. I've made my decision on who to believe, and it isn't you.

    Paul states that we (those in Christ) are no longer condemned. To be no longer condemned means that we once were condemned.

    Paul states that we were once not "in Christ", but we are placed "in Christ". It is only "in Christ" that we have no condemnation.

    The verse we were looking at states that God, in Christ, was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their sins...but also that men (individually) needed to be reconciled.


    You have placed yourself in a unique position by asking members to choose between your ideas based on lifted verses or God's Word as it is written.
     
    #75 JonC, Mar 26, 2024
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    @JonC

    Then y do you keep asking ? There is a world in 2 Cor 5:19 that is free from sin and condemnation because God doesnt charge it, and all who belong to it, Gods chosen, with sin. Where no sin is, no condemnation. This world has never been condemned, its always been loved by God Jn 3:16,17

    Now on the other hand, there is a condemned world of individuals, God doesnt Love, and Christ didnt die for 1 Cor 11:32

    32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

    Jn 17:9

    9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
     
    #76 Brightfame52, Mar 26, 2024
  17. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    @JonC

    Okay, is the world that God Loved in Jn 3:16 in Christ ?
     
    #77 Brightfame52, Mar 26, 2024
  18. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Your answer is from your man-made view. You should try reading the bible without your calvinist presupposition.
     
    #78 Silverhair, Mar 26, 2024
  19. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I answered it already.
     
    #79 Brightfame52, Mar 26, 2024
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Actually you did not. All you have done is quote the scripture and tell us we do not know what it says. You pull verses out of context or grab verses that have the same word in them and think that supports your view.

    The bible does not support your errant view BF.
     
    #80 Silverhair, Mar 26, 2024
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