How 2 Cor 5:19 teaches limited atonement !

[Brightfame52]

Limited atonement is taught plainly in scripture !

Even though the natural man will attempt to explain away the truth of God as to who Christ specifically came to saved through His blood, yet the testimony of God is true and all men liars.

That Christs death is limited to only a certain segment of men is seen here , a clear statement limiting the recipients of His Death, the Angelic heavenly testimony here Matt 1:20-21

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

His People here is another way of saying His Elect/Sheep !

 

[Brightfame52]

Another passage of scripture that evidences the range of the death of Christ Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


Now Christ Sheep and His People are One and the same. Lets look at a Psalm for proof Ps 100:3

3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

And since scripture evidences that some of His Sheep are non jews/gentiles by Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep[gentiles] I have, which are not of this[jewish] fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Then its spiritually logical that His People in Matt 1:21 are not all of the jewish fold but also from among the gentile fold. Thats what James meant here Acts 15:14

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

 

[37818]

What Jn 10:11,15 does not say,

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life {solely} for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life {solely} for the sheep.

 

[Brightfame52]

What Jn 10:11,15 does not say,

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life {solely} for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life {solely} for the sheep.

But thats what it means, since He was speaking definitely, and for you or anyone else to go beyond what He specifically stated, is venturing on speculation and not what He said specifically.

 

[37818]

But thats what it means, since He was speaking definitely, and for you or anyone else to go beyond what He specifically stated, is venturing on speculation and not what He said specifically.

Yes, He died for those who would become His sheep.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes, He died for those who would become His sheep.

False

 

[37818]

False

What is false? Persons are not sheep before they are sheep. Ephesians 2:2, Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, . . .

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus prayer indicates limited atonement !


Jn 17:9

9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.


10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

Now why did Christ refuse to pray for everyone ? Because all were not His that had been given to Him by His Father like His Sheep had been Jn 10:27-30

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The same as in Jn 17 :2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Since Christ didn't pray for them, then He didn't die for them as He did His Sheep ! 1

 

[37818]

Jesus prayer indicates limited atonement !


Jn 17:9

9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.


10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

Now why did Christ refuse to pray for everyone ? Because all were not His that had been given to Him by His Father like His Sheep had been Jn 10:27-30

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The same as in Jn 17 :2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Since Christ didn't pray for them, then He didn't die for them as He did His Sheep ! 1

Brother @Brightfame52, you so interpret this in that way. But I cannot.

Please do this. Explain how you see the atonement in 1 John 5:10, . . . He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. . . .

How does whom Christ did not atone make God a liar? Having no grounds to believe?

 

[Brightfame52]

Brother @Brightfame52, you so interpret this in that way. But I cannot.

Please do this. Explain how you see the atonement in 1 John 5:10, . . . He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. . . .

How does whom Christ did not atone make God a liar? Having no grounds to believe?

because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. . . .

 

[37818]

because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. . . .

So God's Son atoned for him and he doesn't believe it.

 

[Brightfame52]

So God's Son atoned for him and he doesn't believe it.

No. The record that God gives of His Son is the Gospel of Gods Grace, how God saves His People from their sins. The Person and Work of Jesus, who He is, what He has done, and for whom, and the effectual results.. For instance, Sovereign election of Grace is part of the record, How God first chose a people in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4. In fact all the Truths of Tulip bear record of Gods Son, do you believe the record ?

 

[37818]

. . . How God first chose a people in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4.

We agree God has chosen, all whom He will save, chosen before the foundation of the world. But we understand God's election differently.
And you have not really answered what I had asked. Referring to 1 John 5:10, . . . he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

How is he by not believing calling God a liar?

 

[Brightfame52]

We agree God has chosen, all whom He will save, chosen before the foundation of the world. But we understand God's election differently.
And you have not really answered what I had asked. Referring to 1 John 5:10, . . . he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

How is he by not believing calling God a liar?

Im going to tell you one more time,

because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. . .

 

[37818]

Im going to tell you one more time,

because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. . .

That is what 1 John 5:10 says, . . . because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. . . .

So do not tell me no. The one not believing Christ atoned for his sins.

 

[Brightfame52]

That is what 1 John 5:10 says, . . . because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. . . .

So do not tell me no. The one not believing Christ atoned for his sins.

Christ didn't atone for the sins of the reprobate non elect, its limited to the elect, that's part of the record of the Gospel of His Son, do you believe that ?

 

[37818]

Christ didn't atone for the sins of the reprobate non elect, its limited to the elect, that's part of the record of the Gospel of His Son, do you believe that ?

Then he has no grounds to believe. How does that make God liar? God didn't give of His Son for him.

 

[Brightfame52]

Then he has no grounds to believe. How does that make God liar? God didn't give of His Son for him.

If Gods record of His Son is that He only came to His Sheep, and He saved them, and that finished His work of redemption, and hearing that,one says, no thats not true, Christ came to save everyone, to give everybody an opportunity to be saved if they only believe, thats calling God a liar. Thats an example

 

[37818]

If Gods record of His Son is that He only came to His Sheep, . . .

^ Note my underline in your quote. ^

John 10:14-15, . . . I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

His sheep were not His sheep before they believe. Ephesians 2:2-3, . . . Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

 

[Brightfame52]

^ Note my underline in your quote. ^

John 10:14-15, . . . I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

His sheep were not His sheep before they believe. Ephesians 2:2-3, . . . Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Do you understand now ?