Featured How About An Agreement ...

You are babbling. Look me in the eye & tell me directly whats on your mind.

 

I beg to differ with you. I have come to my conclusions via hard & deliberate study of the scriptures.

 

Test yourself every day Jon & what doesnt kill makes ya.....:thumbsup:

 

Agreed (Rom. 8:7; 1 Cor. 2:14).

To be precise, Arminianism begins with God first calling, but not violating, the will of the creature. Arminianism denies effectual grace. Salvation becomes synergistic instead of monergistic.

Your view of the Atonement is classic Amyraldianism. You contradict yourself when you say that "Christ's death made salvation possible to all men but also that His death secured and made certain the salvation of the elect". Somehow you think that your following statement, "Scripture is clear that faith is essential to salvation" supports your view of the Atonement. Instead you are stating something that is not disputed by Arminians or Calvinists.

Jesus provided His own best commentary on the scope and intent of the Atonement:

John 10:14-17 14 "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again."

John 10:26-29 26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."

Jesus said, "I lay my life down for the sheep". Jesus did not lay His life down for all men everywhere. If He did then all men have the real possibility of being saved; and if that is true then Unconditional Election is not true and Arminianism (or worse) are valid theologies.

If you mean that the Atonement had to take place, by Christ laying His life down for His sheep as the propitiation for their sins, I concur.

I think you are taking too much license with Calvin. There is a sense in which the entirety of the Gospel will be admissible in God justly condemning the reprobate. Indeed, Scripture says:

Acts 17:30-31 30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

The question is whether all people everywhere can repent. If they can then, as I said previously, Unconditional Election is not true. This is why there are systemic disagreements over John 3:16. Does "the world" mean all people everywhere on an equal basis, and that "whosoever" of all people everywhere may be saved? If this question is posed looking for a theological answer the response is "no". Jesus laid His life down for His sheep, those whom the Father gave Him. If this question is asked from a pastoral perspective my answer may be better received by Amyraldian. Let me explain.

When I preach the Gospel, I do so knowing that all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Theologically I know that only the Elect are able to give a positive response to the Gospel (i.e. saving faith). But I lack perfect knowledge. God has not granted to me the ability to discern who is elect and who is not. So, I preach the Gospel as if I was an Arminian. I plead with men to be reconciled to God. I say this, not just to you, but to all my Arminian brethren; accept for the lack of an altar call and "every head bowed and every eye closed", you would be hard pressed to disagree with my presentation of the Gospel. I believe that all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Amen! Do I also believe that the "all who call upon the name of the Lord" are a God determined number that make up the Elect? Yes. But I also believe that God ordained the means of calling His Elect, which is the Gospel.

Again, if the Cross made salvation possible for all men, then there is no such thing as Unconditional Election. And yes, we do disagree. And yes, your belief is de facto Arminianism.

 

Maybe if Jon was raised up as a practicing Catholic as I was for 34 years -- knowing in your heart that it was false, knowing that you are being manipulated into accepting some man made system of humanistic falicy and having everything and everyone aroung you reinforce it.......then maybe Jon would know just how much he is tipping his hat to that terrible system....which to me is enslavement. I can go on and on with it....but the smell of Arminism...of Synergistic human based (let me give my self up as a gift to God) er stuff reeks of Catholism. And that's what led me to question my faith and eventually led me to atheism. And I gotta tell you that there are a lot of atheists walking around here in the north...just like I was. Had it not been for the power of the Holy Spirit, id still be an atheist.

 

Forget it.

 

OK how does everyone know....at this point, this "Everyone Knows" is a suggestion & not a concrete.

 

I will stick with TULIP I like the fragrance of it. Every thing else smells like.

 

I will use NIV just because you are such a promoter of it (personally I could not care less, but...)

Romans 1:18-21New International Version (NIV)
God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

So here is the question, how can you glorify that which you are an enemy with? We are born with the sin of Adam so are you not born with that corruption ingrained in you already?

 

You hold that God had the death of jesus as an atonement for all sinners, but that only those sinners to whom God applies that Grace to are actually saved by the Cross correct?

So unlike Arminians, you would not hold that there was a real potentaial that all could be saved, nor do you agree with them that we still freely decide to accept/reject Jesus, as you would hold to the grace of God still being the factor to enable those to be saved by the cross will really all get saved?

 

That also begs the question, " if we can hold to an Atonement view different from penal substitionary view, will we really still be saved?"