How am I condemned?

[HankD]

Psalm 82 is simply a warning to the elite aristocratic ruling cast of Israel that if they don't do the right thing for the common working class people that they themselves would die as a commoner.

HankD

 

[agedman]

your soul pre existed, not your body, The same as after death,

1) There is no Scripture for a pre existing soul. And it certainly doesn't fit the Genesis narrative of Creation of man. Did not God have to breath into Adam the breath of life? Why would He not just grab one floating about and stuff it in to him?

2) The Scriptures state that when the believer dies that they are absent (removed from this body) and given a new body to be present with the Lord. There is no "soul sleep" one is immediately in the presence of the Lord upon death. 2 Corinthians 5: 4

"While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life."​

3) Therefore, it is evident that the after life is clothed in a new body, not just souls floating about as some ghostly aberration that might be read in literature, but not found in the Scriptures.

The closest that could be found (which is not supportive of a ghostly aberration) is from 1 Samuel 28:

“Bring up Samuel for me.” 12When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul.” 13The king said to her, “Do not be afraid; but what do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a divine being coming up out of the earth.” 14He said to her, “What is his form?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped with a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and did homage.​

Yet, even in that account, it is not some "soul only" but one clothed, and having a form (body).

 

[loDebar]

1) There is no Scripture for a pre existing soul. And it certainly doesn't fit the Genesis narrative of Creation of man. Did not God have to breath into Adam the breath of life? Why would He not just grab one floating about and stuff it in to him?

2) The Scriptures state that when the believer dies that they are absent (removed from this body) and given a new body to be present with the Lord. There is no "soul sleep" one is immediately in the presence of the Lord upon death. 2 Corinthians 5: 4

"While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life."​

3) Therefore, it is evident that the after life is clothed in a new body, not just souls floating about as some ghostly aberration that might be read in literature, but not found in the Scriptures.

The closest that could be found (which is not supportive of a ghostly aberration) is from 1 Samuel 28:

“Bring up Samuel for me.” 12When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul.” 13The king said to her, “Do not be afraid; but what do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a divine being coming up out of the earth.” 14He said to her, “What is his form?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped with a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and did homage.​

Yet, even in that account, it is not some "soul only" but one clothed, and having a form (body).

Adam became a Living soul,,, as oppossed to a dead soul ? why say living if a soul makes a body alive?

Yes, it does say new body just as Jesus says the new wine in old vessels.

I believe it was Samuel because it scared the medium It was not she expected

 

[agedman]

Adam became a Living soul,,, as oppossed to a dead soul ? why say living if a soul makes a body alive?

Yes, it does say new body just as Jesus says the new wine in old vessels.

I believe it was Samuel because it scared the medium It was not she expected

Of course, it was Samuel, but the point being that Samuel had form shape and clothed.
Souls are never presented as bodiless in the Scriptures.

The body may (as on the mount of transfiguration) sparkle as brighter then the sun, or (as in the case of Samuel) robed, but there is form and substance, not some ghostly aberration.

Adam was a living soul unlike the rest of the living creatures because the soul was eternal. All other matters of the creation reproduce but pass. As much as I adore my Westie, it will pass, it has no eternal form and substance. God breathed that soul into Adam. He being the first having no ending, but eternal.

Why would one not put new wine (unfermented to vinegar) into an old vessel that had the stain of the old? Seems pretty obvious. When present with the very Lord Jesus Christ, he isn’t going to present us before the Father as our old sinfilled condition, but in new. There will be no need of fasting and prayers, only praise.

 

[loDebar]

Psalm 82 is simply a warning to the elite aristocratic ruling cast of Israel that if they don't do the right thing for the common working class people that they themselves would die as a commoner.

HankD

They were in Heaven, God is speaking

 

[agedman]

They were in Heaven, God is speaking

No, you have geography wrong.

God was standing in the midst of His congregation - which was Israel. Never in Scripture is the heaven of God's throne referred to as a congregation. However, Israel is referred too as the congregation in the OT.

He was addressing the rulers (both political and religious) of the people called by His name, and by extension all people under all leaders of all time, for the Scriptures state that God establishes the rulers and leaders.

 

[loDebar]

Of course, it was Samuel, but the point being that Samuel had form shape and clothed.
Souls are never presented as bodiless in the Scriptures.

The body may (as on the mount of transfiguration) sparkle as brighter then the sun, or (as in the case of Samuel) robed, but there is form and substance, not some ghostly aberration.

Adam was a living soul unlike the rest of the living creatures because the soul was eternal. All other matters of the creation reproduce but pass. As much as I adore my Westie, it will pass, it has no eternal form and substance. God breathed that soul into Adam. He being the first having no ending, but eternal.

Why would one not put new wine (unfermented to vinegar) into an old vessel that had the stain of the old? Seems pretty obvious. When present with the very Lord Jesus Christ, he isn’t going to present us before the Father as our old sinfilled condition, but in new. There will be no need of fasting and prayers, only praise.

In the OT , soul usually includes body, just the Hebrew word includes both
but some indicate soul without body , same word but implication is different
Psa 142:4
I looked on my right hand, and beheld, but there was no man that would know me: refuge failed me; no man cared for my soul.
Eze 18:4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

In Greek, all three are mentioned
Mat 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

so the soul is separable , easily explained in Greek

We all thre the soul will exist without the body and still be known Th new will be like the old "but then shall I know even as also I am known."

 

[loDebar]

No, you have geography wrong.

God was standing in the midst of His congregation - which was Israel. Never in Scripture is the heaven of God's throne referred to as a congregation. However, Israel is referred too as the congregation in the OT.

He was addressing the rulers (both political and religious) of the people called by His name, and by extension all people under all leaders of all time, for the Scriptures state that God establishes the rulers and leaders.

I agree with your point on congregation, but not this verse

Why would He tell men they would die as men?

And Why would Jesus quote it against blashphemy?

 

[loDebar]

I believed this thread will end tonight.
I appreciate the posts and discussion

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

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