How am I condemned?

[Martin Marprelate]

I do not understand your point please explain. I totally agree with these verses .
Do you think you look lke God? or are you also a spiritual being , as He is?

You are being deliberately obtuse.
Lo Debar, your views place you outside of Christian orthodoxy. You have had enough correction from various people on this thread to show you your errors. I am finished trying to correct you.

 

[HankD]

IoDebar, Noted that you have said you are not Mormon but are you of the Reorganized LDS Church or do you have a Mormon background?

Your doctrine seems very Mormonesque.

 

[loDebar]

You are being deliberately obtuse.
Lo Debar, your views place you outside of Christian orthodoxy. You have had enough correction from various people on this thread to show you your errors. I am finished trying to correct you.

I totally agree Christam orthodoxy has left the teaching of Jesus, directly. I was quoting Jesus and others were quoting the or some Church, We must foremost depend on the original meanings of scripture, not man's translations which are opinions.
They are not correcting me but trying to change the direct meaning of scripture to what we want to believe. This position that supercedes the temporal physical over the eternal spiritual is a lie of the Devil. It is Humanism.
They have elevated the Human importance and experience when it is really a narrative of a death row prisoner and the opportunity to be pardoned.

 

[loDebar]

IoDebar, Noted that you have said you are not Mormon but are you of the Reorganized LDS Church or do you have a Mormon background?

Your doctrine seems very Mormonesque.

I did even know who they were until my teenage years, There were not Mormans in rural Ga.
I enquired a little from the internet just to understand their doctrine and compare them as wrong as JW and even Islam They believe earth will be elevated to be as Heaven. Jesus was a created being etc. Totally wrong. They believe in pre existance of souls but I believe that but we are the bad guys, and condemned.

Even the old Rabbis teach that souls were created at creation(?) and receive a body later. They see bodies are formed , and souls are created

 

[HankD]

I did even know who they were until my teenage years, There were not Mormans in rural Ga.
I enquired a little from the internet just to understand their doctrine and compare them as wrong as JW and even Islam They believe earth will be elevated to be as Heaven. Jesus was a created being etc. Totally wrong. They believe in pre existance of souls but I believe that but we are the bad guys, and condemned.

Even the old Rabbis teach that souls were created at creation(?) and receive a body later. They see bodies are formed , and souls are created

Interesting view Io.

I don't believe you will find any here at the BB who would agree in the pre-exsistence of the soul/spirit of human beings who apparently sinned as such in the preexistence.

I may be wrong though.

Shepherd's Chapel maybe?

Though you find none - stick around.

Here you will find the orthodox view of what is called "original sin" or how we as the human race became sinners originally.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:

 

[loDebar]

Interesting view Io.

I don't believe you will find any here at the BB who would agree in the pre-exsistence of the soul/spirit of human beings who apparently sinned as such in the preexistence.

I may be wrong though.

Shepherd's Chapel maybe?

Though you find none - stick around.

Here you will find the orthodox view of what is called "original sin" or how we as the human race became sinners originally.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:

Sin did enter the physical existance through Adam , Sinful spiritual beings were already here.
Romans is showing the comparioson of effectiveness of Jesus and Adam . Are all men saved through Jesus? Did Jesus establish a method where we could be saved? Through Adam a way of sin was establisjhed or cursed. Are we required to participate? Are we required to participate in salvation?

This place is a prison occudied bt those who cannot see. God chose a method where we can participate in salvation, to be human is the first prerequisite.

This was his mission statement

Luk 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

We think we are not captives, We think we are speciial but we are the condemned

Jhn 9:41¶
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

 

[HankD]

Sin did enter the physical existance through Adam , Sinful spiritual beings were already here.
Romans is showing the comparioson of effectiveness of Jesus and Adam . Are all men saved through Jesus? Did Jesus establish a method where we could be saved? Through Adam a way of sin was establisjhed or cursed. Are we required to participate? Are we required to participate in salvation?

This place is a prison occudied bt those who cannot see. God chose a method where we can participate in salvation, to be human is the first prerequisite.

This was his mission statement

Luk 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

We think we are not captives, We think we are speciial but we are the condemned

Jhn 9:41¶
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Io we have irreconcilable differences.
May the LORD bless you in your search for Him.

 

[loDebar]

Io we have irreconcilable differences.
May the LORD bless you in your search for Him.

It is difficult to turn from error from our Church teachings which we have defended so well

I believe pre existance no only to be correct but a well hidden secret used by the devil within the church

I am not looking for God, That relationship was restored long ago.

 

[agedman]

It is difficult to turn from error from our Church teachings which we have defended so well

I believe pre existance no only to be correct but a well hidden secret used by the devil within the church

I am not looking for God, That relationship was restored long ago.

If you don’t find proof in the Scriptures, then the thinking you have “believe(dj” is of the evil one and not of God.

Before, “let us make man in our image” The was no preexistance of sprit men floating around ready to snare the next human body.

From reading your posts, I get the impression you enjoy sci-fi.

 

[loDebar]

If you don’t find proof in the Scriptures, then the thinking you have “believe(dj” is of the evil one and not of God.

Before, “let us make man in our image” The was no preexistance of sprit men floating around ready to snare the next human body.

From reading your posts, I get the impression you enjoy sci-fi.

I use sripture and logic to present this type of presentation.

man being in God's image is beimg a spiritual being, God is spirit

Do you believe angels existed before humans? What about fallen angels , did they exist as spiritual beings?

 

[loDebar]

I use sripture and logic to present this type of presentation.

man being in God's image is beimg a spiritual being, God is spirit

This plainly presented words ofJesus and no one provided and explanation, but rejected mine.

Do you believe angels existed before humans? What about fallen angels , did they exist as spiritual beings?

 

[agedman]

I use sripture and logic to present this type of presentation.

man being in God's image is beimg a spiritual being, God is spirit

Do you believe angels existed before humans? What about fallen angels , did they exist as spiritual beings?

Perhaps in your consideration that the Elohim is Spiritual, that also created by the Word - all that exists, then, in some manner, humankind also had preexistence.

There is no human timeline associated with the creation of the heavenly hosts. Only that rebellion was found among some, and it had certain results.

There is nothing in Scriptures that support thinking that some “spiritual” form of human existence was pre Adam which is interpreted “the first.”

The first, Adam, cannot have a previous Adam.

 

[loDebar]

Perhaps in your consideration that the Elohim is Spiritual, that also created by the Word - all that exists, then, in some manner, humankind also had preexistence.

There is no human timeline associated with the creation of the heavenly hosts. Only that rebellion was found among some, and it had certain results.

There is nothing in Scriptures that support thinking that some “spiritual” form of human existence was pre Adam which is interpreted “the first.”

The first, Adam, cannot have a previous Adam.

There is no previous Adam . spiritually there is no kindred, We are unique( no two alike) individually created beings
We are spirits, (souls), in human vessels

 

[agedman]

There is no previous Adam . spiritually there is no kindred, We are unique( no two alike) individually created beings
We are spirits, (souls), in human vessels

Ok, but did you not post:

I believe pre existance no only to be correct but a well hidden secret used by the devil within the church

That coupled with your statements from here:

Spiritual creation was when beings in Heaven were created, seraphimsm cherbims, etc. It is separate from physical creation. We know angels already existed at physical creation from Job 38:7 when angels rejoiced at creation

And this one here:

Even the old Rabbis teach that souls were created at creation(?) and receive a body later. They see bodies are formed , and souls are created

I assumed that you were taking a position that humankind souls were pre-created and waiting for the appointment to a human host.

Was I wrong in that assumption?

 

[loDebar]

Ok, but did you not post:



That coupled with your statements from here:




And this one here:



I assumed that you were taking a position that humankind souls were pre-created and waiting for the appointment to a human host.

Was I wrong in that assumption?

no , souls are the eternal spiritual beings, the real you in a tempory human vessel, We sinned before being human(and afterward) We are condemned and awaiting eternal punishment, Humanity, instead of being our folly, is part of and necessary for salvation.

 

[agedman]

no , souls are the eternal spiritual beings, the real you in a tempory human vessel, We sinned before being human(and afterward) We are condemned and awaiting eternal punishment, Humanity, instead of being our folly, is part of and necessary for salvation.

How would souls sin pre-human body existence?

 

[loDebar]

How would souls sin pre-human body existence?

How did angels sin?

 

[HankD]

How would souls sin pre-human body existence?

agedman this is Mormon doctrine.

loDebar says he is not Mormon, but the supposed preexistence of human beings is indeed LDS teaching:

Prior to mortal birth individuals existed as men and women in a spirit state and thus coexisted with both the Father and the Son. That period of life is also referred to as the first estate or pre-existence.

Premortal Life - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

 

[loDebar]

agedman this is Mormon doctrine.

loDebar says he is not Mormon, but the supposed preexistence of human beings is indeed LDS teaching:



Premortal Life - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

yes, but they consider it all good, I consider our fall was there ,in that state

 

[Yeshua1]

yes, but they consider it all good, I consider our fall was there ,in that state

There are NO scriptures to uphold your belief in this area...