Except for YOUR faith and YOUR choice.We can agree here
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How can Jesus make this claim ...
- Thread starter atpollard
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I cannot effect one inch of a salvific reality to the spirit/soul/body of Jon. It's all God's grace that effects His regenerating, Sanctifying, Glorifying Work.Except for YOUR faith and YOUR choice.
LOL--I mean let's stop choking on gnats here. God said that whoever calls on Him to be saved will be saved. If I call on the Lord to be saved, how is that a work of man? Stop it brother.Except for YOUR faith and YOUR choice.
Yeah, well, when I put my children my in bed at night I told them that Jesus loves them. …I’m guessing you would have to tell yours that you hope they were one of the lucky pre-selected few, or did you lie to them? Maybe you told them Jesus loves those who believe while holding back the rest of your story. Take note:
“If you take part of the truth, and try to make that part of the truth, all of the truth, then that part of the truth becomes an untruth.” ~ Adrian Rogers
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Have they believed on Christ? Do they love Him?
If not, how can you tell them that He loves them?
" I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me." ( Proverbs 8:17 )
" The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." ( Psalm 5:5 )
Take note:
Adrian Rogers was a man who preached that God loves all men equally, when He doesn't. John 3:16 is only one verse in the Bible, and God has more to say on the subject of who He loves.
" As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." ( Romans 9:13 )
I'm sorry, sir, but it seems you have a problem with the biblical teaching that God will have compassion on some, and not others when it comes to saving them.
Here, i'll make it simple for you.
God calls us to "love our enemies". What you are proposing is that God calls us to a love that He Himself is not able to live out. So our love exceeds the love of God??? Foolishness, brother.
"Call" is a middle voice subjunctive.
Now you're sounding like the pharisees that accused Jesus of working on the Sabbath because they picked grain to eat."Call" is a middle voice subjunctive.
No, I am pointing out your error. Don't compare yourself to Jesus. You don't measure up.
What does that even mean? Not a good witness, my friend.
And I'll say, Christ calls us to believe on Him and then you will say believe is a work, too, that exalts man. Right?
Wrong again. Faith is a gift from God, just like repentance and obedience, and is the result of regenerating Grace, not the cause of it.
Greetings brother, I understand your point of view. And while i disagree, we can still encourage each other and pray for one another. I pray that you continue a fruitful work in the Lord to the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
It means I am not playing the Pharisee, as you so hatefully claim, but that I am pointing out your error regarding the voice and mood of "call."
Not hateful brother, i'm trying to speak the Truth in Love.
By likening me to a Pharisee? Yes. Very loving. Well, not so much. And Truth? Not one bit.
I spoke to the "sounding of your argument." Maybe that wasn't articulated well, and for that i apologize
Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 7 PM Pacific.
This thread will be closed sometime after 7 PM Pacific.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
God calls us to love our enemies even as He loved His children, who were His enemies in the flesh before He reconciled them to Him by the death of His Son:
" For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."( Romans 5:10 )
" And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:" ( Colossians 1:21-22 )
" Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." ( Ephesians 2:2-3 )
" For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another." ( Titus 3:3 )
Believers were the enemies of God in their minds and in their natures before they were called into the fellowship of the saints...God tells us as believers to love our enemies, even as He loved us.
It's an example, and it goes right along with the Law, which says to love our neighbor as ourselves.
Back to my point ( and apologies to the OP for breaking topic ):
Do some of you really think that God casts people into Hell that He loves?
Apparently we believe in a much different God.
My Saviour loved me, and gave Himself for me ( Galatians 2:20, Ephesians 5:25 )...that's why I'm going to be with Him someday. The lost are going to Hell because of their sins, and because Jesus did not die for them to make atonement for them ( contrary to what some of you may think that 1 John 2:2, all by itself, plus maybe 5 others, seem to say ).
If God casts anyone into Hell, it's because of His wrath towards them ( John 3:36, Romans 1:18, Romans 9:22-24, 2 Peter 2:9 ), not His love.
" For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." ( Romans 5:6-9 )
6) Here we see Paul writing to believers, and telling them that they were ungodly and without strength.
7) Then he uses an example of men dying for men, and then, in verse 8, God dying for His children, Christ's sheep.
8) God commended His love towards us ( the believer, because that is who this letter is written to ) in that, while we ( believers ) were yet sinners ( God's enemies ), Christ died for us ( believers ).
9) Much more then, being justified by His blood, we ( the believers from verse 8 and the subject of the entire letter starting in Romans 1:7 ) shall be saved from...what?
His wrath.
" God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day." ( Psalms 7:11 )
Every word is important ( Matthew 4:4 ).
Do those of you who read the Bible every day, carefully consider each and every word, as you read it? Do they start to leap off the page, and sink into your minds like they do with me?
There's a lot of scary stuff in there:
God loves eternally, and God hates... eternally.
That's what Hell is all about...God's hatred for sinners who deserve His everlasting punishment, and saving some of them to show His grace to.
What...you thought mankind was the only one who was capable of hating individuals for justifiable reasons?
We're made in His image.
We corrupted it, but it is still present in each of us.
Lest we forget, He also chooses to show mercy in this life to even the lost, because He makes the sun to rise and the rain to fall on both the just and the unjust, and because His goodness leads all men to repentance, even though they will not ever repent ( Romans 2:4-5 ) unless He changes their hearts.
He shows mercy, and He is willing to show wrath.
Let's try not to bring Him down off His throne and make Him something His word doesn't state, like all-loving to all people at all times... reluctantly having people He actually loves thrown into Hell because He just couldn't ( or wouldn't ) get past their "free will" that He just will not over rule.
Please see Daniel 4:35 and others like it; passages most people either don't read, or don't hear preached in churches every Sunday.
There's a reason we as believers are to fear ( respect ) Him and to be sober in this life;
Because He saved us from His wrath, and we know that He is holy and just, and not to be trifled with.
May God bless you sir.
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
Cool. I am about to have my first thread closed and I didn’t even need to get an infraction to do it.
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