We are still free to do what we want to do, just the sin nature limits us to what we desire to actually do!
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How can Jesus make this claim ...
- Thread starter atpollard
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Only because you cannot honestly answer it.
Man has freewill and is in bondage simultaneously? Who or what is he in bondage to? Does being so bound limit his freewill? If his freewill is so limited, is he aware of his limitations? If his freewill is limited, how can he free himself from being limited?
Charles H. Spurgeon
August 2, 2018
Morning Reading
Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will. —Ephesians 1:11
Our belief in God's wisdom supposes and necessitates that He has a settled purpose and plan in the work of salvation. What would creation have been without His design? Is there a fish in the sea, or a fowl in the air, which was left to chance for its formation? Nay, in every bone, joint, and muscle, sinew, gland, and blood-vessel, you mark the presence of a God working everything according to the design of infinite wisdom. And shall God be present in creation, ruling over all, and not in grace? Shall the new creation have the fickle genius of free will to preside over it when divine counsel rules the old creation? Look at Providence! Who knoweth not that not a sparrow falleth to the ground without your Father? Even the hairs of your head are all numbered. God weighs the mountains of our grief in scales, and the hills of our tribulation in balances. And shall there be a God in providence and not in grace? Shall the shell be ordained by wisdom and the kernel be left to blind chance. No; He knows the end from the beginning. He sees in its appointed place, not merely the corner-stone which He has laid in fair colours, in the blood of His dear Son, but He beholds in their ordained position each of the chosen stones taken out of the quarry of nature, and polished by His grace; He sees the whole from corner to cornice, from base to roof, from foundation to pinnacle. He hath in His mind a clear knowledge of every stone which shall be laid in its prepared space, and how vast the edifice shall be, and when the top-stone shall be brought forth with shoutings of "Grace! Grace! unto it." At the last it shall be clearly seen that in every chosen vessel of mercy, Jehovah did as He willed with His own; and that in every part of the work of grace He accomplished His purpose, and glorified His own name.
This has been brought to you by the following ministries: Blue Letter Bible
August 2, 2018
Morning Reading
Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will. —Ephesians 1:11
Our belief in God's wisdom supposes and necessitates that He has a settled purpose and plan in the work of salvation. What would creation have been without His design? Is there a fish in the sea, or a fowl in the air, which was left to chance for its formation? Nay, in every bone, joint, and muscle, sinew, gland, and blood-vessel, you mark the presence of a God working everything according to the design of infinite wisdom. And shall God be present in creation, ruling over all, and not in grace? Shall the new creation have the fickle genius of free will to preside over it when divine counsel rules the old creation? Look at Providence! Who knoweth not that not a sparrow falleth to the ground without your Father? Even the hairs of your head are all numbered. God weighs the mountains of our grief in scales, and the hills of our tribulation in balances. And shall there be a God in providence and not in grace? Shall the shell be ordained by wisdom and the kernel be left to blind chance. No; He knows the end from the beginning. He sees in its appointed place, not merely the corner-stone which He has laid in fair colours, in the blood of His dear Son, but He beholds in their ordained position each of the chosen stones taken out of the quarry of nature, and polished by His grace; He sees the whole from corner to cornice, from base to roof, from foundation to pinnacle. He hath in His mind a clear knowledge of every stone which shall be laid in its prepared space, and how vast the edifice shall be, and when the top-stone shall be brought forth with shoutings of "Grace! Grace! unto it." At the last it shall be clearly seen that in every chosen vessel of mercy, Jehovah did as He willed with His own; and that in every part of the work of grace He accomplished His purpose, and glorified His own name.
This has been brought to you by the following ministries: Blue Letter Bible
who says that?
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
Wake up, Tom..... I did answer it.Only because you cannot honestly answer it.
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
Please see Scripture above.
No, you didn't. You went round and round but never addressed the issue.Wake up, Tom..... I did answer it.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
I think if a person believes the offer they will respond. But they must already be saved to believe the offer. The unbelievers will walk away. The passage separates the sheep from the goats, so to speak.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Some may see it as semantics, but I don't regard salvation as an "offer".
If it were an offer, as in, "you do this and I will do that", then, in my opinion, eternal life goes from being a gift, to being a reward for doing the right thing.
To me, salvation is then reduced to a marketplace deal, placed on a table and hung with a sign that says, "whosoever will may come"...and then completely ignores the rest of what the Bible says about why a man comes to Him in belief.
That's what my former churches did...they reduced salvation to a relatively large handful of verses, including the "Romans Road", select quotes like 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2 and John 3:16, and never read the ones that were "hard to understand" ( 2 Peter 3:16 ).
If it were an offer, as in, "you do this and I will do that", then, in my opinion, eternal life goes from being a gift, to being a reward for doing the right thing.
To me, salvation is then reduced to a marketplace deal, placed on a table and hung with a sign that says, "whosoever will may come"...and then completely ignores the rest of what the Bible says about why a man comes to Him in belief.
That's what my former churches did...they reduced salvation to a relatively large handful of verses, including the "Romans Road", select quotes like 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2 and John 3:16, and never read the ones that were "hard to understand" ( 2 Peter 3:16 ).
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
It is an inescapable logical consequence of the initial assumption.
Can you explain to me how someone has the free will to choose to believe or disbelieve, and if they choose to believe, then they loose their free will because they no longer have the ability to choose to later reject that belief?
God regenerates them , and then they come to the water to be saved!
How can someone whose very nature is in rebellion towards God, and is ignorate to spiritual things sufddenly will theselves to now believe?
So you don't actually know of anyone. Got it.
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I have never made that argument. Strawman
I disagree. It is a good question. If a lost man can choose to believe why can't a saved man choose to not believe?
I can answer that. Can you?
I never commented on if it is good or not. I have never argued nor do I support the position as he worded it. Therefore is is a strawman. I do not hold to the position he stated.
Why dodge the question? Can you answer it or not? I can.
Why dodge the question? Can you answer it or not? I can.
"Dodge the question", "ignorant" etc. Don't talk about people calling something you hold to evil if this is how you are going to post. I don't have to call it evil but I sincerely believe it is. Since you seem to lack any reservation about the things I quoted you as saying, I'm not going to be worried about speaking out about your sincerely held belief that I sincerely believe is evil.
I do not hold to what he posted, I reject that position, therefore I have no need to defend that which I disagree with.
Why do you believe that people can lose their salvation?
Cinnamon Apples
New Member
Psalm 115:3 Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Read Acts 4 and particularly verses 26-28. All things are predestined to occur for the glory of our Sovereign God. And for our good.
Why are you so afraid of the question that you have to run away from it?
Why do you have to insinuate that which you know is untrue? Trying to throw up some dust and dirt to hide behind so you can avoid answering the question?
I can answer the question with bible proof. Why can't you?
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