How can we be truly saved?

[longhino]

The wording of the thread title and posts illustrates the ambiguity in the Bible and the gnostic characteristic of Christianity e.g. several conflicting words to define one spiritual state and arguments over what the words mean.

Can you please further explain in clear words and specifics, if possible, what you are stressing in your said post, may you please do us that favor, brother?

 

[longhino]

Repent and believe the gospel.......

Are you sure of that? If so, what proof can you cite that you are really saved and where did you receive the assurace and confirmation from that you are really saved? Is believing the gospel the same and one in believing Jesus Himself in the reality of His existence? If so, is the gospel and that of the Lord Jesus Christ one and the same, too?

 

[longhino]

No need to add what these good posters posted except :jesus:

But as the writer said there, "here is the biblical answer," does the bible save in the first place? Who does really save?

 

[longhino]

Give us your testimony how you were saved.

Nice question, what we are saying must be real and a product of personal experience from God since God is real and alive.

If you are saved how did you come to know Christ?

Another essential question that needs to be answered in detail and not in rhethorics. I really like the way how you ask question, brother.

 

[convicted1]

Are you sure of that? If so, what proof can you cite that you are really saved and where did you receive the assurace and confirmation from that you are really saved? Is believing the gospel the same and one in believing Jesus Himself in the reality of His existence? If so, is the gospel and that of the Lord Jesus Christ one and the same, too?

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.


Eph. 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[Winman]

What must I do to be saved? believe on the Lord jesus and you shall be saved!

here is the biblcal answer!

hear the Gospel, receive/believe in jesus, and receive forgiveness/new nature, and are saved!

(Know that the Lord enables one to do such, being a calvinist, but talking about what we know happens!)

You contradict yourself. First you say a person must receive and believe on Jesus, and then they receive forgiveness and a new nature. This is correct and scriptural.

But then you contradict yourself and say God must enable you. You didn't say it here, but yourself and numerous Calvinists say a person must be regenerated and have a new nature before they can receive and believe on Jesus.

So which is it? Do you believe we receive and believe on Jesus and afterward receive the new nature, or do you believe we first receive the new nature and are then enabled to receive and believe on Jesus?

It cannot be both, it must be one or the other.

To answer the OP, all one needs to do to be saved is trust Jesus Christ to save him. To trust means to cast yourself upon Jesus and depend upon him only to save you. I have given the analogy of a person being in a tall building that is on fire. You are trapped in the window. Down below, firemen with a net call out to you to jump, and they promise they will catch you. You have two options here, you can try to climb down and save yourself, or you can simply jump and trust the firemen alone to save you. This is how we are saved, we spiritually "jump" and trust our salvation completely to Jesus. We put our life in Jesus's hands and leave it there. We do not need to help Jesus, we do not need to attempt to climb down from that high window, we simply cast ourselves out and depend on Jesus alone to catch us.

Simply call out to Jesus in your heart and cast yourself upon him, and you will be saved today.

 

[savedbymercy]

Man has to be chosen to salvation from the beginning [from everlasting] to experience salvation in time. 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Here, Salvation is brought about by one being Sanctified by the Holy Spirit, which is another way of saying New Birth, which leads to Belief in the Truth, that is , the word of Truth, the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13. However outside of God's Choice in Christ from Everlasting, we have no hope of Salvation, in fact, the alternative is Reprobation and Eternal Punishment !

 

[Winman]

Man has to be chosen to salvation from the beginning [from everlasting] to experience salvation in time. 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Here, Salvation is brought about by one being Sanctified by the Holy Spirit, which is another way of saying New Birth, which leads to Belief in the Truth, that is , the word of Truth, the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13. However outside of God's Choice in Christ from Everlasting, we have no hope of Salvation, in fact, the alternative is Reprobation and Eternal Punishment !

I would disagree, 1 Peter 1:2 says we are elect according to the foreknowledge of the Father. That is, God elects whom he sees in his foreknowledge will believe in time.

1 Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Foreknowledge by definition means to know something before it takes place. This word is proginosko and is used in 2 Pet 3:17.

2 Pet 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Here, proginosko is translated at "know before" ("these things" are supplied words), and is spoken of men. It simply means to know something before it takes place.

Our election is according to foreknowledge, God knowing that we would believe the truth (2 Thes 2:13) in time.

It is like the story of Gideon, where God commanded Gideon to take ten thousand men down to water and observe how they drank. Three hundred men put their hands to their mouths and lapped like a dog, these are the men God chose to fight with Gideon. God knew beforehand who would drink in this manner, and that the rest would kneel down to drink. God chose only the three hundred men (Judges 7:1-7)

 

[annsni]

I would disagree, 1 Peter 1:2 says we are elect according to the foreknowledge of the Father. That is, God elects whom he sees in his foreknowledge will believe in time.

1 Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Foreknowledge by definition means to know something before it takes place. This word is proginosko and is used in 2 Pet 3:17.

2 Pet 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Here, proginosko is translated at "know before" ("these things" are supplied words), and is spoken of men. It simply means to know something before it takes place.

Our election is according to foreknowledge, God knowing that we would believe the truth (2 Thes 2:13) in time.

It is like the story of Gideon, where God commanded Gideon to take ten thousand men down to water and observe how they drank. Three hundred men put their hands to their mouths and lapped like a dog, these are the men God chose to fight with Gideon. God knew beforehand who would drink in this manner, and that the rest would kneel down to drink. God chose only the three hundred men (Judges 7:1-7)

God's election is not based on what man will do but instead what God has done. He doesn't say "Oh good, these are the people who will believe in me so I will elect them" - that makes man the master of his election and it is wholly not supported by Scripture.

 

[saturneptune]

This is what is amazing to me. Salvation is of the Lord through faith in Jesus Christ for His finished work on the cross. It is a belief in His burial, death, and Resurrection. It is a belief that He is the Son of God and is God. (hello Mitt) Anything else is nonsense. Look at the number of different takes on "how am I saved" in this thread alone. In Acts, we had one church and one Spirit. We still have one Spirit, and hundreds of denominations and thousands of groups within those denominations.

Is it any wonder that if there is a difference of opinion on this one subject, that we argue about everything else from God's sovereignty, to KJV, to closed communion, to end times, to etc, etc, etc. What happened to the church? Oh I know, each of you goes to the correct one.

 

[billwald]

SINCE YOU ASKED <G>


>So are you saying you reject Christianity?

NO! I don't think orthodox Christianity was what Jesus had in mind.

>Or that you remain agnostic about whether we can actually know truth?

We can't be sure we know the truth as long as we "see through a glass, darkly." And could we understand it if we could see it clearly? I don't know. My pastor says God talks to us in baby talk because that is all we can understand.


>>The wording of the thread title and posts illustrates the ambiguity in the Bible and the gnostic characteristic of Christianity e.g. several conflicting words to define one spiritual state and arguments over what the words mean.


>Can you please further explain in clear words and specifics, if possible, what you are stressing in your said post,

"Believe in," "invite Jesus," "Be born again," regeneration," "sanctification," "being save," "following Jesus," "repenting," "being elect" are all different ways of describing the same end result.

One characteristic of gnosticism is having levels of understanding like the Masonic "degrees." Most of you are to polite, to civilized, to plainly say that anyone who disagrees with you is going to hell, but clear most believe that anyone who disagrees has a lower level of understanding thus is less sanctified, less holy.

You all quote scripture and use theological words as if everything is clear and understood by every other person. The big technical words are not a problem. Anyone can grab a dictionary or use wiki. When someone asks, "Do you mean A or B?" that is a an honest question. When someone asks a question that would be easier to look up they are trying to start some kind of trouble.

Evangelical Protestants use some popular verses as a gnostic password. The meaning is assumed, never discussed, and I don't know what it "really" means. The problem is the small words. For example, "Greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world." It should be obvious that this sentence has two meanings for "in."

I like listening to Catholic Radio (except for the "Hail Marys") because they have very qualified personnel who speak in clear standard English, not "insider" jargon.

A friend (85 years old) gave me a book written by his old friend whom he says is the most intelligent person he has known. I turned a few pages and it was obvious the author was a pharisee. First hint, all the pronouns for Jesus or God are capitalized. That is NOT standard English or standard theological practice. Not even the KJV does that! Second, it is clear he thinks the moral problems in the US would be solved by indoctrinating the young people with the Ten Commandments. Many Christians are pharisees without realizing it.

 

[DHK]

Man has to be chosen to salvation from the beginning [from everlasting] to experience salvation in time. 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Here, Salvation is brought about by one being Sanctified by the Holy Spirit, which is another way of saying New Birth, which leads to Belief in the Truth, that is , the word of Truth, the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13. However outside of God's Choice in Christ from Everlasting, we have no hope of Salvation, in fact, the alternative is Reprobation and Eternal Punishment !

And how do you know all of that if you can't testify of it. You say man has to be chosen from the beginning. Sure, that is what the Bible says. Are you sure you are chosen from the beginning? If so, how?

 

[annsni]

A friend (85 years old) gave me a book written by his old friend whom he says is the most intelligent person he has known. I turned a few pages and it was obvious the author was a pharisee. First hint, all the pronouns for Jesus or God are capitalized. That is NOT standard English or standard theological practice. Not even the KJV does that! Second, it is clear he thinks the moral problems in the US would be solved by indoctrinating the young people with the Ten Commandments. Many Christians are pharisees without realizing it.

So a pharisee is one who capitalizes pronouns for God? Oh really? I know MANY who have done so and I continue to do it - honoring God's name. Even a pronoun referring to Him should be capitalized, IMO.

 

[Winman]

God's election is not based on what man will do but instead what God has done. He doesn't say "Oh good, these are the people who will believe in me so I will elect them" - that makes man the master of his election and it is wholly not supported by Scripture.

If God desires to choose those that believe, that is his doing. This is also shown in the story of Gideon.

Jud 7:4 And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go.
5 So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink.
6 And the number of them that lapped, putting their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men: but all the rest of the people bowed down upon their knees to drink water.
7 And the LORD said unto Gideon, By the three hundred men that lapped will I save you, and deliver the Midianites into thine hand: and let all the other people go every man unto his place.

God told Gideon to bring his ten thousand men down to a body of water where they would be tried. God told Gideon to set apart those who lapped water like a dog from those who bowed down to drink. God already knew who and how many would lap like a dog, but he did not cause them to drink in this manner.

But it was God who established the criteria of who would be chosen. A man simply drank water as he did, but God chose those who put their hands to their mouth and lapped like a dog.

And even further, it is directly said that God did this to demonstrate he was the one who saved Israel.

Jud 7:2 And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people that are with thee are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, Mine own hand hath saved me.

So, God choosing these three hundred men because they lapped like a dog does not mean they saved Israel, God saved Israel.

If before the foundation of the world God decided to choose those who would believe on Jesus in time, then God determined who would be saved, just as he determined beforehand those that would lap like a dog would fight with Gideon.

This story is a figure of election if you will receive it.

 

[annsni]

If God desires to choose those that believe, that is his doing. This is also shown in the story of Gideon.

Jud 7:4 And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go.
5 So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink.
6 And the number of them that lapped, putting their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men: but all the rest of the people bowed down upon their knees to drink water.
7 And the LORD said unto Gideon, By the three hundred men that lapped will I save you, and deliver the Midianites into thine hand: and let all the other people go every man unto his place.

God told Gideon to bring his ten thousand men down to a body of water where they would be tried. God told Gideon to set apart those who lapped water like a dog from those who bowed down to drink. God already knew who and how many would lap like a dog, but he did not cause them to drink in this manner.

But it was God who established the criteria of who would be chosen. A man simply drank water as he did, but God chose those who put their hands to their mouth and lapped like a dog.

And even further, it is directly said that God did this to demonstrate he was the one who saved Israel.

Jud 7:2 And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people that are with thee are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, Mine own hand hath saved me.

So, God choosing these three hundred men because they lapped like a dog does not mean they saved Israel, God saved Israel.

If before the foundation of the world God decided to choose those who would believe on Jesus in time, then God determined who would be saved, just as he determined beforehand those that would lap like a dog would fight with Gideon.

This story is a figure of election if you will receive it.

So you believe that God chose those men who would drink a certain way to be the ones who would deliver Israel - and thus we know that God chooses men based on what they would do? Then that means that WE have the power to make God choose.

Instead, could it just be that God directed those who He wanted to fight, to drink a certain way? That just maybe He set something in their hearts to act a certain way because He had already chosen them? Is that too far fetched? I see God saying that He's chosen not based on anything that the person has done or because of any good in him but because of His sovereign choice.

 

[Winman]

So you believe that God chose those men who would drink a certain way to be the ones who would deliver Israel - and thus we know that God chooses men based on what they would do? Then that means that WE have the power to make God choose.

Instead, could it just be that God directed those who He wanted to fight, to drink a certain way? That just maybe He set something in their hearts to act a certain way because He had already chosen them? Is that too far fetched? I see God saying that He's chosen not based on anything that the person has done or because of any good in him but because of His sovereign choice.

Read it again, God told Gideon to bring the men down to water where he would "try" them. This word means to "test" or "prove" them. How could it be a test if God compelled these men to drink in the manner they did?

If God determined that only those who believe in Jesus shall be saved (which is exactly what he did), then God alone has determined who will be saved.

 

[annsni]

Read it again, God told Gideon to bring the men down to water where he would "try" them. This word means to "test" or "prove" them. How could it be a test if God compelled these men to drink in the manner they did?

If God determined that only those who believe in Jesus shall be saved (which is exactly what he did), then God alone has determined who will be saved.

Who would "try" them - God or Gideon?

 

[Winman]

Who would "try" them - God or Gideon?

God said he would try them, read for yourself.


Jud 7:4 And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go.

This was God speaking to Gideon, and God said he would try the people for Gideon.

God already knew that only three hundred would raise their hand to their mouths and lap like a dog, and this is who God chose to fight with Gideon.

But God did not cause these men to drink this way, else how could it possibly be a test?

God can use any criteria he wishes to choose men. It is still God who determines who is chosen, this is shown in the passage.

Jud 7:4 And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go.

If God has chosen to give men choice to believe on Jesus or not, and he elects those that choose to believe, God has still determined who is saved and who is not. Calvinism cannot seem to grasp this.

 

[annsni]

God said he would try them, read for yourself.


Jud 7:4 And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go.

This was God speaking to Gideon, and God said he would try the people for Gideon.

God already knew that only three hundred would raise their hand to their mouths and lap like a dog, and this is who God chose to fight with Gideon.

But God did not cause these men to drink this way, else how could it possibly be a test?

God can use any criteria he wishes to choose men. It is still God who determines who is chosen, this is shown in the passage.

Jud 7:4 And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go.

If God has chosen to give men choice to believe on Jesus or not, and he elects those that choose to believe, God has still determined who is saved and who is not. Calvinism cannot seem to grasp this.

Yes, God told him which to go with Gideon. He already chose the men to go. The sign to Gideon was the drinking. God didn't choose them based on their drinking.

 

[Winman]

Yes, God told him which to go with Gideon. He already chose the men to go. The sign to Gideon was the drinking. God didn't choose them based on their drinking.

In your view, there is no test.

Those who did not bow down were prepared (five wise virgins), they did not get off their feet and were ready if the enemy attacked, as the five wise virgins were prepared and had oil in their lamps.

And how can you say that God did not choose them because of their drinking? God in fact chose those who brought their hand to their mouth and lapped like a dog. If these men had bowed down on their knees to drink, then they would not have been chosen. Your view is nonsensical.

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Calvinism says men are chosen unconditionally, but the scriptures show no such thing.