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How did modern worship music turn out to be so bad?

just-want-peace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well, I did not read ALL the replys, but what jumped out at me was the subject of the "song"! IOW, if you were a non-believer who heard this on the radio as you were driving, just WHO is this "YOU" that is "my song", and "won't let me down"?
This could just as well be ole Slew-foot - if that's your cup of tea!!
In any case, TOO long and TOO repetitious - like most are! (As one of my pastors said many years ago, "7-11 songs" IE: 7 phrases sung 11 times! :Rolleyes )
 

MennoSota

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well, I can't disagree that there's too much novelty. If you're not careful, no one learns a song before you move on and leave it in the dust.

We're not going to agree on "King of My Heart." It recalls the Psalms, even if it's not as elegant (though I can do without the chorus). There are much songs out there.

My greatest complaint is not about the lyrics necessarily (though some are poor) but about the music. Too often it's meant for soloists or professionals and is difficult for congregations to sing because of rhythm or odd tune development. Congregational singing is enjoined in the New Testament, not solos or "special" music, and the congregation should be able to sing it.

For an example of what I think is a modern classic, I submit:

How Deep The Father’s Love For Us - Stuart Townend

I agree that there are a few spatterings of quality music. Townend's song is over 20 years old, however, so if we go by that we're looking at one good song per decade. ;)
 

MennoSota

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If we follow the scripture concerning music, many congregations would disband. There is no real scriptural support for instruments of any kind. Now we have paid piano players who get applauded after every performance. God is not looking for accolades. He is looking for obedience with worship in Spirit and in Truth. We fall short in both categories.

Real Church is not entertainment of the flesh folks. Warm and fuzzy feelings do not come from God. Time to repent in sackcloth and ashes. "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it?"

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Hmmm...I guess all those tamborines, lyres and other instruments never accompanied a psalm...

As for the rest of your comments. I agree...other than sackcloth and ashes. Can I exchange sackcloth for torn up jeans and ashes for engine grease? :)
 

MennoSota

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Site Supporter
What do these lyrics even mean? All I hear is a whole bunch of metaphors that make no sense, followed by a whole bunch of "You are good, good, Oh!".

Also, what happens when a person's world completely collapses by God's ordained decree? That feeling of being let down is going to hit you between the eyes and you'll see that God let's your dreams and plans crash and burn on top of you. If you have no concept that the utter dismemberment of all your plans is God's blessing to you, you'll be greatly disappointed and feel that God absolutely let you down.

This song provides no help when such an event happens in your life.

I have no patience for the light and fluffy that only imagines big hugs from a teddy bear daddy.

Finally, I don't like Bethel Music. They teach that they are modern day prophets who are giving new revelation to us. I utterly reject such a claim as biblically incorrect and thus a false claim by Bethel Music.

Let the king of my heart
Be the mountain where I run
The fountain I drink from
He is my song

Let the king of my heart
Be the shadow where I hide
The ransom for my life
He is my song

You are good, good, ô ô

Let the king of my heart
Be the wind inside my sails
The anchor in the waves
He is my song

Let the king of my heart
Be the fire inside my veins
The echo of my days
He is my song

You are good, good, ô ô

You're never gonna let
Never gonna let me down

When the night
Is holding on to me
God is holding on
 

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Try: "Amazing Grace" or "How Great Thou Art" without instruments.

Drum beat is fleshly. God does not accept worship in the flesh.

We have too many money changers in the temple. "The love of money is the root of all evil."

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

I was a song leader in our church over 40 years and we sang every song without instruments... Now I know that may sound strange to you but when I led and sang a song I felt the song I was singing and so did the congregation... Amazing Grace if one didn't know any better was our church Alma Mater... Maybe Brother RL Vaughn will give us his slant on this subject he sings Sacred Harp... Shape note singing... I have a question what instrument did the Lord create?... He gave you vocal cords didn't he... There is your instrument... Sometimes I break out in song by myself and sing my heart out to the Lord... Maybe kyredneck will give us his thoughts as I know his church doesn't use instruments either... So there you go MennoSota and don't forget this scripture... Brother Glen:)

Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We're not going to agree on "King of My Heart." It recalls the Psalms, even if it's not as elegant (though I can do without the chorus).

That is exactly the feel I got from the song too. :)

I think the issue is that there are a lot of songs out there and a lot of songs that are good - but maybe not good for singing in church with a congregation. My daughter is on one of the worship teams at our campus and also for our college group and she came up with something that I think was very good a few years ago and I saved it. I think it helps to understand what songs are good for church and which songs are better left in the car or concert. :) Here is what she wrote:

Guidelines for Choosing Worship Songs


Hello worship team members of [church]! After some time serving as a worship leader and receiving guidance from many spiritual leaders, I have been taught and discovered there are certain guidelines for choosing a worship set. This is my attempt to put them on paper. Here we go!

1) Is it theologically sound? (Is it theologically weak or watered down?)

- There are some popular worship songs that have little to no theological content. These songs tend to sing the same thing over and over again and you wonder if the worship team is stuck on repeat. Other songs might seem to be theologically deep, but when you really analyze the lyrics it contains a confusing message or talks about things that contradict the Bible.

2) Is it a performance or worship style song/is it appropriate for the setting?

- There are beautiful Christian music songs that are wonderful to sing along to. Does this mean it is good for worship? Not necessarily! While He Reigns by Newsboys is a fantastic song, it is not the type of song that is for worship. It is telling about the network of believers and how they worship the Lord, but it is not a song worshiping God.

3) Is it clear the song is talking about God or could it be about a significant other?

- If this song was sung in a bar, would the audience think this song was about God or the significant other of the song writer? Pretty clear cut on this one.

4) Is it singable for the congregation?

- Are the melody and lyrics singable for the congregation? There are some songs that pass all the other criteria while having a melody that is downright un-singable unless you study the sheet music. There also are songs that the lyrics are hard to learn, making it difficult for the congregation to enter into worship.

- Along with singability, it must be an appropriate style/genre for the congregation. This point can also fit in the performance or worship topic, but it is more important for the congregation. There are churches who are adding songs with Christian rap into their worship sets. Christian rap can be some of the most theologically deep and intense lyrics of any song genre. If this is a style that the congregation will accept, then by all means add it to your set. But, if you have a more traditional congregation, putting rap in the worship time would be the reason for a mass exodus from or the extinction of your congregation. You must cater to the style preferences of the congregation as you are there to lead the congregation in worshiping the Lord.

These are the first steps to determine if a single song is appropriate for the congregation you are leading.


Types of worship songs:

1) Declaration songs

a) Songs that declare what God has done, will do, or about His character

b) Songs that declare what God does or will do for us


2) Praising songs

a) Songs that praise God

b) Songs in which we surrender to Him


In a worship set, it is important to have a good mix of songs that fall into each category. Declaration songs are wonderful to show who God is and what He does for us, but they do not praise God in the way He deserves. Worship songs are a great way to open people's hearts to God, but they do not speak of who God is. It is important to have both types of songs so the set list will have meaning on multiple levels.

It also is important to consider the first set of criteria. There are some good songs that might be a little watered down theologically. By pairing a watered down song with a more theologically deep song it helps to create a balanced worship set. For example, you need to look for songs that have meat in them and not just milk. Songs that are milk are good but only in moderation! (Hebrews 5:12-14)

The format for the set list depends on the structure of the church service. You should speak with your pastor or church leader to see what they want from the worship during the service. If they are not sure, there is a basic format that works.

Start with a "gathering song." This is an upbeat song that will pull people into the sanctuary from the lobby, bring them together and get everyone singing. Then structure the songs in a decreasing tempo from that first song. The other consideration is bringing people deeper into worship. This is why the declaration songs tend to go towards the beginning of the set while worship songs go toward the end before the message.

Familiarity is also important for finding the right songs for worship which goes along with guideline 4. In a worship set for a service, the songs chosen should be familiar to the congregation. What happens if there are 5 songs in a set, and 4 of them are brand new or unfamiliar to the congregation? They will spend the worship time learning the songs instead of entering into a spirit of worship. This is why it is important to have only one new song in a set, and then repeat that song over the next few weeks so it can be learned. A good formula is, introduce a song week one, repeat the next one or two weeks, give one week off and then repeat one last week before letting it rest for a couple weeks.

I would like to remind you that these are "guidelines" and not rules set in stone. You can always change and adapt to work with the setting of the service/event where your team will be leading. Although, remember to prayerfully consider your decisions when in a place of influence. I hope this was helpful to all who participate on the worship teams of [church].


Your Sister in Christ,


~Nicole
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What do these lyrics even mean? All I hear is a whole bunch of metaphors that make no sense, followed by a whole bunch of "You are good, good, Oh!".

Also, what happens when a person's world completely collapses by God's ordained decree? That feeling of being let down is going to hit you between the eyes and you'll see that God let's your dreams and plans crash and burn on top of you. If you have no concept that the utter dismemberment of all your plans is God's blessing to you, you'll be greatly disappointed and feel that God absolutely let you down.

This song provides no help when such an event happens in your life.

I have no patience for the light and fluffy that only imagines big hugs from a teddy bear daddy.

Actually, I don't get that from this song. Let's take a look at the lyrics:

Let the King of my heart
Be the mountain where I run
The fountain I drink from
Oh, He is my song
And let the King of my heart
Be the shadow where I hide
The ransom for my life
Oh, He is my song

Yes You are good
You're good, oh-oh

And let the King of my heart
Be the wind inside my sails
The anchor in the waves
Oh-oh, He is my song
Let the King of my heart
Be the fire inside my veins
The echo of my days
Oh-oh, He is my song

You're never gonna let
You're never gonna let me down[/quote]

Why would you need to run to a mountain or need a shadow to hide? It speaks of waves and God being an anchor. I see that as saying that God is our fortress and our strength. ;) Yes, God is good in the good AND the bad and He never lets us down.



Finally, I don't like Bethel Music. They teach that they are modern day prophets who are giving new revelation to us. I utterly reject such a claim as biblically incorrect and thus a false claim by Bethel Music.

This I agree with and it is why we avoid using Bethel music at our church. They do some weird things including something called "grave soaking" which is just downright weird.
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Most of the performers and purveyors of CCM are (or were) young. They haven't had the experiences that disciplined their forerunners. Shallow roots yield meager fruits.
 

MennoSota

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Actually, I don't get that from this song. Let's take a look at the lyrics:

Let the King of my heart
Be the mountain where I run
The fountain I drink from
Oh, He is my song
And let the King of my heart
Be the shadow where I hide
The ransom for my life
Oh, He is my song

Yes You are good
You're good, oh-oh

And let the King of my heart
Be the wind inside my sails
The anchor in the waves
Oh-oh, He is my song
Let the King of my heart
Be the fire inside my veins
The echo of my days
Oh-oh, He is my song

You're never gonna let
You're never gonna let me down

Why would you need to run to a mountain or need a shadow to hide? It speaks of waves and God being an anchor. I see that as saying that God is our fortress and our strength. ;) Yes, God is good in the good AND the bad and He never lets us down.





This I agree with and it is why we avoid using Bethel music at our church. They do some weird things including something called "grave soaking" which is just downright weird.[/QUOTE]
I appreciate your attempt to explain "King of my Heart." I still don't see it or understand it. Too many disconnected metaphors.

As for Bethel Music...we're on the same page.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I find it laughable that the modern church is over the top with preoccupation about music.

Charles H. Spurgeon and I would agree on a greater level about music in the worship than I ever would with most modern puff and fluff.

There isn't a modern church that holds a flickering candle in comparison to the torch of the work his church accomplished.

Unbelievably shallow, vain, and worthless music in the assembly such as illustrated by the op is an embarrassment.

That there seems no shame and much less actual discernment of members on the BB about the op music is pathetically pitiful. Rather, there is actually endorsement!

No wonder Christ ask that rhetorical question, "When I return, will I find true faith on this earth?" (Luke18). If the church lacks even the ability to discern and make appropriate judgements on the expression of true faith and righteousness, how will it ever become more than moderately warm and worthy of disregard?
 

rlvaughn

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Charles H. Spurgeon and I would agree on a greater level about music in the worship than I ever would with most modern puff and fluff.
Would you share with us what Spurgeon said about music that you're agreeing with?

Thanks!
 

rsr

<b> 7,000 posts club</b>
Moderator
Unbelievably shallow, vain, and worthless music in the assembly such as illustrated by the op is an embarrassment.

That there seems no shame and much less actual discernment of members on the BB about the op music is pathetically pitiful. Rather, there is actually endorsement!

And that fact that some people take themselves and their opinions more seriously than they should might also be pathetically pitiful. It's a possibility.
 

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
What do these lyrics even mean? All I hear is a whole bunch of metaphors that make no sense, followed by a whole bunch of "You are good, good, Oh!".

Don't like metaphors? Don't read the psalms. ;)

I understood the metaphors perfectly. The contrasting attributes of God's refuge being a mountain AND a shadow, then his strength being wind to move the ship AND an anchor to hold it still was very psalm-like to me.

And God is described as "good" many time over in the psalms.

If the song isn't your cup of tea, then that's fine. I liked it. I probably won't go around singing it, but I enjoyed listening to it and agreeing with the singers that this is who God is.
 

MennoSota

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Site Supporter
Don't like metaphors? Don't read the psalms. ;)

I understood the metaphors perfectly. The contrasting attributes of God's refuge being a mountain AND a shadow, then his strength being wind to move the ship AND an anchor to hold it still was very psalm-like to me.

And God is described as "good" many time over in the psalms.

If the song isn't your cup of tea, then that's fine. I liked it. I probably won't go around singing it, but I enjoyed listening to it and agreeing with the singers that this is who God is.
Wow, perhaps I have a higher view of the psalms...or you have deeper insight into the masterful use of metaphors in that song. I don't get it and ultimately I end up laughing at the tortured metaphors being used in that song. [emoji23]
 

Reynolds

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sure, but not as a congregational sing. Put KOYH on in your car and enjoy.
I could enjoy it fine in my car or at church.
Ok, I just don't get the objection. Is it ok for the pastor to tell a joke on the pulpit? What if the joke is funny, but contains no theological value?
 

MennoSota

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I could enjoy it fine in my car or at church.
Ok, I just don't get the objection. Is it ok for the pastor to tell a joke on the pulpit? What if the joke is funny, but contains no theological value?
A joke from the pulpit should fit with the theological point being made from scripture. A joke for laughters sake is a wasted moment by the preacher.
 

Reynolds

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
A joke from the pulpit should fit with the theological point being made from scripture. A joke for laughters sake is a wasted moment by the preacher.
It serves the purpose of focusing peoples attention.

Is the theology of King of your heart really that bad? If a believer truly makes Jesus The King of their heart, the rest of those deep theological issues will fall into place.
This whole discussion reminds me of one of my friends who quit going to church. He is a Christian. He goes to small group Bible studies, shows fruit, etc. He just does not like organized church. His most often stated reason is "I just got tired of dealing with those bitter old bastards. They complain about everything and they are in every church around here."
 
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