How did modern worship music turn out to be so bad?

[HankD]

Out of respect for others, I won't bring it up again in this particular forum. God didn't call us to engage in strife.

God Bless

No problem Katarina, this is a debate forum.
For some/many/most of us "strife" is not what folks are doing who enjoy Christian debate as a form of fellowship.

So please do join in if you see what I mean.
Otherwise No problem


HankD

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

No problem Katarina, this is a debate forum.
For some/many/most of us "strife" is not what folks are doing who enjoy Christian debate as a form of fellowship.

So please do join in if you see what I mean.
Otherwise No problem


HankD

Thanks Hank, I do appreciate it. But right away I could see that some folks were quite ready to battle it out.

I do enjoy Christian debate as long as it is conducted in a Christian way. I've watched Christians do damage to the faith with back-biting, salvation deciding, sarcasm, and mean spirited rhetoric. I ask myself, what must unbelievers be thinking of our conduct? I do fail at times, more than I like to admit. But if I want unbelievers to embrace the faith, I have to walk the walk.

God Bless.

 

[HankD]

Thanks Hank, I do appreciate it. But right away I could see that some folks were quite ready to battle it out.

I do enjoy Christian debate as long as it is conducted in a Christian way. I've watched Christians do damage to the faith with back-biting, salvation deciding, sarcasm, and mean spirited rhetoric. I ask myself, what must unbelievers be thinking of our conduct? I do fail at times, more than I like to admit. But if I want unbelievers to embrace the faith, I have to walk the walk.

God Bless.

Thanks Katarina,

If and when you do enter in a debate (and this is what I do) before the "post reply" button is pushed I ask myself - would I say this to his/her/their face?

Works pretty good

HankD

 

[David Kent]

Some things, like who The King is, should be obvious to a Christian.

But probably not to unbelievers. Could be anyone, as in Abide with me.

 

[Mike Stidham]

I think the problem is two fold. One CCM is big business and if a group can get a song played in a lot of churches they make a lot of money off of it. ...
I'm of the opinion that songs should be held the same doctrinal standard as the sermon. Now there are also labels I think Biblical Churches should avoid because those at the head of those labels are deep within WOF and NAR cult territory. I will not sing any song by Hillsong, Bethel, or Vineyard for that reason.

The problem is that all these CCM labels are now owned and distributed by secular record labels, as they have been since the 1990's. Theology is of minor import; "can we make a buck" is the major driver. So you end up with all these 7-11-05 songs: seven words, repeated 11 times, for 5 minutes.

 

[Reynolds]

The problem is that all these CCM labels are now owned and distributed by secular record labels, as they have been since the 1990's. Theology is of minor import; "can we make a buck" is the major driver. So you end up with all these 7-11-05 songs: seven words, repeated 11 times, for 5 minutes.

Five minutes? Where you finding them that short?

 

[yod]

Oh this one is easy. The tithe of the Temple went to supporting the musicians. There wasn't a preacher or pastor in the Temple whatsoever.

Today's church is waaaaaaay too cheap to do that so the best and the brightest among the Body of Christ have to leave the church to find a place for their gift. What's remains is untalented, uneducated, uninteresting....and exactly what you paid for.

 

[Reformed]

Some of my Presbyterian friends practice exclusive psalmody (or "EP); they only sing the psalms in metric order. They view the psalter as God's hymnal for the Church. That will certainly eliminate any bad lyrics.

A number of years back there was a song in our rotation that had these lyrics, "I'm standing on this mountain top to see your kingdom come". I thought to myself, "Really!? Is that the apex of the Christian existence?" Our songs started to change right there and then.

The other thing that concerns me is special music. How many time does someone sing a solo and receive applause afterwards? Yes. I know the argument that they are applauding God, not the singer, but I do not buy it. How often is the preacher applauded for preaching a strong sermon? There is a church near Disney World that my wife and I visited a few months back. The preaching was dynamic. The music was performed by talented musicians who were well rehearsed. The problem with the music was that it was not made for congregational signing. The lead singer was good. Really good. There was no competing with him. All that was missing were stage effects and people holding up lighters.

 

[MennoSota]

Oh this one is easy. The tithe of the Temple went to supporting the musicians. There wasn't a preacher or pastor in the Temple whatsoever.

Today's church is waaaaaaay too cheap to do that so the best and the brightest among the Body of Christ have to leave the church to find a place for their gift. What's remains is untalented, uneducated, uninteresting....and exactly what you paid for.

Sarcasm?

 

[MennoSota]

Christian polka...

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I do enjoy Christian debate as long as it is conducted in a Christian way. I've watched Christians do damage to the faith with back-biting, salvation deciding, sarcasm, and mean spirited rhetoric. I ask myself, what must unbelievers be thinking of our conduct? I do fail at times, more than I like to admit. But if I want unbelievers to embrace the faith, I have to walk the walk

You're quite right, Katarina, but invective in debates is nothing new among Christians. Your "husband" (Martin Luther) had a pretty strong line in invective!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Well, according to most on here, the Gospel is not preached at those churches. If indeed, The Gospel is not preached, does it really matter if they sing " Amazing Grace" or "Highway to Hell"?

A few years back I attended a large (by UK standards) supposedly-evangelical church near where I live. The Gospel wasn't preached and during the Lord's Supper they played the theme from Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves ('Everything I do....').

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

You're quite right, Katarina, but invective in debates is nothing new among Christians. Your "husband" (Martin Luther) had a pretty strong line in invective!

I rejoice in the life of Martin Luther. But scripture convinces me that he was wrong on many issues: Infant baptism, the cult of Mary, and the Eucharist.

I wouldn't call Luther's words invective. Some are down right mean spirited and disgustingly crass. Nevertheless, he knew that salvation was not for sale.

Christians need to conduct themselves in accordance with scripture.

Ephesians 4:29King James Version (KJV)

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Colossians 4:5-6English Standard Version (ESV)

5 Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. 6 Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.

God Bless

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Duplicate

 

[Reynolds]

A few years back I attended a large (by UK standards) supposedly-evangelical church near where I live. The Gospel wasn't preached and during the Lord's Supper they played the theme from Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves ('Everything I do....').

I fully admit there are plenty of worthless churches. A church does not have to remind me of systematic theology classes, for it to be a good church.