How did you arrive at Calvinism?

[Dave G]

"Christians seek peace, not war, utilyan."

They do. Why won't you?

I do.
But that doesn't mean I have to agree with you, doctrinally.

How we view what Scripture teaches is what separates us, utilyan.
It probably always will.

One of the fundamental stratagems of war is getting dibs on Moral High ground.

Everyone is possibly totally depraved, but you are elect, how convenient.

I'm sorry that you do not make the connection between "whosoever believeth" and God's elect.
They are one and the same.

Have you believed on Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, from the heart ( Romans 10:9-10 )?
Then you are one of God's elect.

Rejoice, because eternal life is a precious gift ( Romans 6:23 ) and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14 ).

Yes, AND ILL RAISE YOU--> GOD LOVES YOU.

Can you say the same?

Yes, He does and yes, I can.

According to His word, He loves each and every one of His children, the "whosoever believeth".

I've already passed Judgement on you.

I have a Judge, utilyan, and so do you.
His name is Jesus Christ.

However, I will not be judged with the lost as He is also my Saviour.
Can you say the same?

I truly hope so.

God LOVES YOU DAVE.

Thank you sir.

I appreciate the encouragement, and I've known for quite some time that He loves me...
After all, He sent His Son to die for me on a cross outside the gates of Jerusalem a long time ago, and I've believed on His Son for over 40 years now.
I take great comfort in knowing that someday I will see Him, and the trials of this life will be over.

This is my final reply in this thread.



I wish all of you well, and my hope is that all who name the name of Christ depart from iniquity, and study His words deeply to know just what it is that God has done for you.

May God's blessings also be upon each of you reading this, should it please Him to bestow His generous gifts to you.

 

[Aaron]

Careful reading and belief of the Scriptures, over a significant period of time.
It took a while for all of it to sink in.

Same.

 

[Van]

About every year we are treated to this claim, I "found" Calvinism (TULIP doctrines) in scripture and was not indoctrinated so as to read the doctrines into the text.

My problem is when I tried to find actual support for the TULI, I could not find it. All the Calvinists say they did, but when asked about specifics, we get deflection.

For example, "chose us in Him before the foundation of the world" can be found at Ephesians 1:4. But what does the phrase "in Him" mean. God chose us as foreseen individuals and placed us into Christ? Others respond God chose us as foreseen individuals to be placed in Christ. A third view is God chose us as foreseen individuals that are now existent individuals who are actually in Him.

Will someone explain what the "in Him" means, and will all the other Calvinists say that is what they found too?

 

[Particular]

About every year we are treated to this claim, I "found" Calvinism (TULIP doctrines) in scripture and was not indoctrinated so as to read the doctrines into the text.

My problem is when I tried to find actual support for the TULI, I could not find it. All the Calvinists say they did, but when asked about specifics, we get deflection.

For example, "chose us in Him before the foundation of the world" can be found at Ephesians 1:4. But what does the phrase "in Him" mean. God chose us as foreseen individuals and placed us into Christ? Others respond God chose us as foreseen individuals to be placed in Christ. A third view is God chose us as foreseen individuals that are now existent individuals who are actually in Him.

Will someone explain what the "in Him" means, and will all the other Calvinists say that is what they found too?

What does "in Him" mean to you, Van? How do all passages in scripture where "in Him" or "in Christ" inform you what that means? What do you observe in scripture regarding this?
I'll let you go find all the times it is used and then consider the context surrounding those references. After that you can report back to us with an understanding of each passage.

 

[Van]

What does "in Him" mean to you, Van? How do all passages in scripture where "in Him" or "in Christ" inform you what that means? What do you observe in scripture regarding this?
I'll let you go find all the times it is used and then consider the context surrounding those references. After that you can report back to us with an understanding of each passage.

I asked about one verse, Ephesians 1:4. But did I get an answer or a link to a published answer? Nope, I got a change subject question. Deflection as predicted. You would think with about a dozen Calvinist posters, I would get an answer, since their interpretation of the verse is foundational.

 

[Particular]

I asked about one verse, Ephesians 1:4. But did I get an answer or a link to a published answer? Nope, I got a change subject question. Deflection as predicted. You would think with about a dozen Calvinist posters, I would get an answer, since their interpretation of the verse is foundational.

So you refuse to research how "in Him" or "in Christ" is used throughout scripture? It seems you don't really want to know. Too bad you refuse to research and share.

 

[Van]

So you refuse to research how "in Him" or "in Christ" is used throughout scripture? It seems you don't really want to know. Too bad you refuse to research and share.

Gee, do you think ad hominems hide your inability to answer a very basic question. But do not feel alone, none of your like-minded bible students answered my post either.

I asked about one verse, Ephesians 1:4. For example, "chose us in Him before the foundation of the world" can be found at Ephesians 1:4. But what does the phrase "in Him" mean. God chose us as foreseen individuals and placed us into Christ? Others respond God chose us as foreseen individuals to be placed in Christ. A third view is God chose us as foreseen individuals that are now existent individuals who are actually in Him. A fourth view is that Christ is the first “Elect” of God, and that our corporate election is contained in His individual election. Subsequently of course we are individually chosen through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13

Will someone explain what the "in Him" means, and will all the other Calvinists say that is what they found too?

 

[Rob_BW]

Careful reading and belief of the Scriptures, over a significant period of time.
It took a while for all of it to sink in.

Yep

 

[1689Dave]

How did you arrive at Calvinism, Doctrines Grace, or whatever you wish to call it? Perhaps Synod of Dort-ism is the most accurate.
(This is not about dramatic conversion stories, please save those for when you feel like selling a book.)

I was raised a Baptist and early on would hear about Calvinist ideas; as my parents tended to believe that. Yet, I never accepted that and was always rebellious. 'Free-will' beliefs coincided perfectly with my rebellious mindset. Soon enough, the church that changed to 'free-will' doctrines, went down hill and I did as well.

Years later and independently, I came to a near total agreement with the so-called T.U.L.I.P., when comparing it's merits (valid verses) against Arminianism and 'free-will' doctrines.
And yet, even looking back to when I was 'free-will', I could never shake the conviction of the Truth from the following verses:

Ephesians 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,​

Escape from a Death Cult:

Once, while young in the faith, I fell into what would become one of the deadliest Word of Faith cults in North America, the Glory Barn Faith Assembly of northern Indiana. God providentially delivered me by what most would call a twist of fate.

I ran into this group through another Pentecostal group. Later, after a job transfer into their region, I began fellowship with them. Nothing stood out as unusual. They had the typical adrenaline driven praise and worship most Pentecostal churches have. But I left the region after a year when my job ended. After a couple of years my wife and I returned to the region and they had grown from around 100 to perhaps a 1000.

During this time, we heard about a few people dying of treatable reasons. But they blamed this on lack of faith. Or their faith must not have been genuine. But it wasn’t too long before God led us out in a most unusual way.

One night they presented the Limited Atonement doctrine so they could teach against it. This was the first I ever heard of Limited Atonement. But the doctrine, even though presented in the most disagreeable way, spoke to me. And after hearing the universal atonement doctrine in contrast, it dawned on me that we had come to an impasse.

I needed to make a choice. If Limited Atonement is true, then faith and healing didn’t work the way they said it did. And it would explain why some died from commonly treatable ailments. After a group discussion on the way home, it was our last involvement with them.

I began studying Reformed Theology augmented by Baptist theology ever since that time.

 

[Particular]

Gee, do you think ad hominems hide your inability to answer a very basic question. But do not feel alone, none of your like-minded bible students answered my post either.

I asked about one verse, Ephesians 1:4. For example, "chose us in Him before the foundation of the world" can be found at Ephesians 1:4. But what does the phrase "in Him" mean. God chose us as foreseen individuals and placed us into Christ? Others respond God chose us as foreseen individuals to be placed in Christ. A third view is God chose us as foreseen individuals that are now existent individuals who are actually in Him. A fourth view is that Christ is the first “Elect” of God, and that our corporate election is contained in His individual election. Subsequently of course we are individually chosen through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13

Will someone explain what the "in Him" means, and will all the other Calvinists say that is what they found too?

Gee, do you think that ad hominems hide your ability to answer what "in Him" and "in Christ" mean throughout scripture? But do not feel alone, none of your like-minded bible students answered my post either.

 

[Jerome]

Escape from a Death Cult...Faith Assembly in northern Indiana...I ran into this group...They were Amyraldian or 4 point Calvinists

hearing the universal atonement theory...it dawned on me that we had come to a fork in the road....After a group discussion on the way home, it was our last involvement with them.

Maybe a year passed when we began hearing about their...dying of easily treated illnesses....The culprit was the missing L in TULIP

That is some Testimony!
Thank you!

 

[Jerome]

This the guy?

Obituaries • December 10, 1984

"The Rev. Dr. Hobart Freeman, the leader of the Faith Assembly, died Saturday night at his home....Freeman was indicted Oct. 17 by a Kosciusko County grand jury on three felony charges in connection with the death of Pamela Menne....Freeman taught that medical care was evil and historically tied to witchcraft....He was originally a Baptist and earned degrees in divinity and theology at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky."

 

[Van]

I asked about one verse, Ephesians 1:4. For example, "chose us in Him before the foundation of the world" can be found at Ephesians 1:4. But what does the phrase "in Him" mean. God chose us as foreseen individuals and placed us into Christ? Others respond God chose us as foreseen individuals to be placed in Christ. A third view is God chose us as foreseen individuals that are now existent individuals who are actually in Him. A fourth view is that Christ is the first “Elect” of God, and that our corporate election is contained in His individual election. Subsequently of course we are individually chosen through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13

Will someone explain what the "in Him" means, and will all the other Calvinists say that is what they found too?

 

[Yeshua1]

How did you arrive at Calvinism, Doctrines Grace, or whatever you wish to call it? Perhaps Synod of Dort-ism is the most accurate.
(This is not about dramatic conversion stories, please save those for when you feel like selling a book.)

I was raised a Baptist and early on would hear about Calvinist ideas; as my parents tended to believe that. Yet, I never accepted that and was always rebellious. 'Free-will' beliefs coincided perfectly with my rebellious mindset. Soon enough, the church that changed to 'free-will' doctrines, went down hill and I did as well.

Years later and independently, I came to a near total agreement with the so-called T.U.L.I.P., when comparing it's merits (valid verses) against Arminianism and 'free-will' doctrines.
And yet, even looking back to when I was 'free-will', I could never shake the conviction of the Truth from the following verses:

Ephesians 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,​

Started from the scriptures, but really started to notice it as being taught in Bible when reading books authored by JI Packer, Spurgeon, and Leon Morris!

Other than Bible, single biggest contribution was when read Martin Luther on the Bondage of the Will!

 

[1689Dave]

This the guy?

Obituaries • December 10, 1984

"The Rev. Dr. Hobart Freeman, the leader of the Faith Assembly, died Saturday night at his home....Freeman was indicted Oct. 17 by a Kosciusko County grand jury on three felony charges in connection with the death of Pamela Menne....Freeman taught that medical care was evil and historically tied to witchcraft....He was originally a Baptist and earned degrees in divinity and theology at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky."

This is him. He has a seminary textbook "Introduction to the OT Prophets" https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Testament-Prophets-Hobart-Freeman/dp/0802441459. Also several other Pentecostal books. He had a THD from Grace Seminary in Winona Lake In. The most captivating speaker I ever heard. Hundreds drove several hours each way just to hear him. I mastered Bancrofts Theology under him while there.

 

[Jerome]

Escape from a Death Cult...Faith Assembly in northern Indiana...I ran into this group...They were Amyraldian or 4 point Calvinists

This the guy?...The Rev. Dr. Hobart Freeman, the leader of the Faith Assembly....taught that medical care was evil and historically tied to witchcraft....originally a Baptist and earned degrees in divinity and theology at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky."

This is him. He has a seminary textbook "Introduction to the OT Prophets" https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Testament-Prophets-Hobart-Freeman/dp/0802441459

That's a major publisher!
Why is he still being promoted???

example:

Reformed Books Online • Commentaries • Prophetical Books of the Old Testament • Hobart Freeman, Introduction to the Old Testament Prophets

 

[1689Dave]

That's a major publisher!
Why is he still being promoted?

Commentaries on All the Prophetical Books of the Old Testament

He was sound until he ran into Kenneth Hagin and the like.

 

[S0l0m0n]

About every year we are treated to this claim, I "found" Calvinism (TULIP doctrines) in scripture and was not indoctrinated so as to read the doctrines into the text.

Since I figured there might be some naysayers (every couple of hours apparently), I thought it'd be best to say 'arrive' and not 'found'. Although, both are loaded terms.
You could say: 'How did I find the doctrines to Calvinism to actually be true?'
Or: 'Why is it that historically heretical free-will individuals find the need to rip into traditional, orthodox, and sound Calvinism?'

 

[S0l0m0n]

I needed to make a choice. If Limited Atonement is true, then faith and healing didn’t work the way they said it did.

Thanks for this, as you shed light on a question that I had in the back of my mind about 'Cessationism'. Or perhaps I misunderstood you... either way, thanks for sharing the story and experience.

 

[S0l0m0n]

Will someone explain what the "in Him" means, and will all the other Calvinists say that is what they found too?

Van arrived at Calvinism by trying to post against Calvinism, only to become it's greatest ally.
Wait, that's not true?
And he's just arguing an irrelevant point, like all the other 'free-will' individuals trying derail the thread?