How Does Your View of Election/Predestination Affect Your Practical Theology?

[Particular]

I don't justify poor-in-spirit's comments, there is definitely a separation between the two ideas expressed... Election is not God gets a vote, then I get a vote... Election is, God's vote is the only one that counts... Brother Glen

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I thought that was your position, but wasn't sure.

 

[Dave G]

Wow. Just wow. You have the mind of God! You know what the Spirit it doing and when. That's awesome!

I am so not worthy.

ITL,
The Bible says that believer's have the mind of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 ).

However, I do not know everything that the Spirit is doing and when.
I do know another believer when I sit down and start talking to them, as we share a connection with each other...Christ in us, the hope of glory.


As for not being worthy, none of us are worthy of His grace and mercy.
That's what makes it all of grace!

 

[Reformed]

My theology has practical effects in a number of areas. One area that stands out is my approach to evangelism. When I became a Christian I was taught the type of personal evangelism that stressed a decision for Christ, typically by getting the person being evangelized to recite the sinner's prayer. The undergraduate Bible college I attended used the same approach to evangelism. My approach to evangelism changed soon after my understanding of election and predestination changed. Instead of pushing for a decision, I placed my efforts into declaring the gospel. By "declaring the gospel" I mean from the state of sinful man (condemnation) to repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ alone. Instead of asking a person to make a decision for Christ, I asked them what they believed in response to hearing the gospel message. It was my conviction that leading someone in a sinner's prayer did not mean that person was a Christian and I did not want them to go away trusting in their decision without actually trusting in Christ. Declaring the gospel and checking for understanding and acceptance does not guarantee a person is saved but it does not provide them a false decision for them to hide behind.

 

[SchrodingerTheCatboy]

By "practical theology" I mean your daily Christian life. Does it have a major impact on how you view God? Does it influence how you view and practice evangelism? Is your worship affected by your soteriological position? How about relationships with other Christians? I am of the belief that our theology counts for little if it does not affect how we live. Arguably, since Calvinism/Arminianism generates the most heat on this board, is it so important to you that it is one of the major drivers in your life and if so, why and how?

Calvinism, the Theory (or Myth) of Predestination and the "Trinity", which we get from the Roman Church, are made up by religious Crackpots many Centuries ago. There is Foreordination and we can choose or not choose to obey HEAVENLY FATHER's Plan for us. JESUS (or His Heavenly Name, JEHOVAH) of Nazareth wanted us to have free Will, unlike His spiritual Brother, Lucifer who wanted EVERY Human to ever be brought into the World to have to choose Lucifer as The Saviour and get into Heaven. HEAVENLY FATHER chose JEHOVAH to be The SAVIOUR of Humankind so we could make our Choices on whether or not we would be faithful and loyal to our Heavenly Parents.

Calvinism, Catholicism, Orthodoxy … all mixed up with Greek and Roman Mythology and Philosophy. That was the Beginning of The Great Apostacy.

 

[church mouse guy]

Calvinism, the Theory (or Myth) of Predestination and the "Trinity", which we get from the Roman Church, are made up by religious Crackpots many Centuries ago. There is Foreordination and we can choose or not choose to obey HEAVENLY FATHER's Plan for us. JESUS (or His Heavenly Name, JEHOVAH) of Nazareth wanted us to have free Will, unlike His spiritual Brother, Lucifer who wanted EVERY Human to ever be brought into the World to have to choose Lucifer as The Saviour and get into Heaven. HEAVENLY FATHER chose JEHOVAH to be The SAVIOUR of Humankind so we could make our Choices on whether or not we would be faithful and loyal to our Heavenly Parents.

Calvinism, Catholicism, Orthodoxy … all mixed up with Greek and Roman Mythology and Philosophy. That was the Beginning of The Great Apostacy.

Are you Jehovah Witness?

 

[1689Dave]

The 3rd point of Calvinism (Limited Atonement) gave me freedom I never knew as an Arminian. That only those whom Christ died for will have an abiding faith. And the only reason I believe is because he died for me. So I see my faith as the result, not the means of salvation. I would not be able to believe in any true sense had he not paid for my sins on the cross. So I went from trying to lift myself over the fence by my ankles in matters of salvation, to enjoying the thrill each day of God lifting me over the fence.

 

[poor-in-spirit]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the questions asked in the OP.


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This has absolutely nothing to do with the questions asked in the OP.


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I beg your pardon brother and will be more specific in regards to sowing seeds.

Only through His Word can faith come and it is the free will choice of each person who hears His Word. God's call is to everyone and only regenerated believers are the messengers of His complete call using the same transparency He used. His call has never come to anyone spontaneously; IOW, without His Word and the Spirit's pricking. There are no divine appointments or signs or miracles for the last 1900 plus years. There is His complete Word to man and His Spirit poured out over all flesh. If anyone is His elect it is only and always because they elected Him.

All Christ claiming systems of belief and denominational teachings are manufactured traditions of men making the Word of God of none affect. Free yourself from them by taking this challenge:

https://www.jesussaidwhat.com/bread-of-life

 

[Reformed]

I beg your pardon brother and will be more specific in regards to sowing seeds.

Only through His Word can faith come and it is the free will choice of each person who hears His Word. God's call is to everyone and only regenerated believers are the messengers of His complete call using the same transparency He used. His call has never come to anyone spontaneously; IOW, without His Word and the Spirit's pricking. There are no divine appointments or signs or miracles for the last 1900 plus years. There is His complete Word to man and His Spirit poured out over all flesh. If anyone is His elect it is only and always because they elected Him.

All Christ claiming systems of belief and denominational teachings are manufactured traditions of men making the Word of God of none affect. Free yourself from them by taking this challenge:

https://www.jesussaidwhat.com/bread-of-life

I still do not think you get it. How does your theology affect your day-to-day life? That is what the opening post is about. In other words, how does what you believe about God impact your beliefs and actions.

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[Shoostie]

By "practical theology" I mean your daily Christian life.

Christians should spend more time thinking about the practical results of their doctrines. Bad doctrines produce bad practical results. Pretrib Rapture produces false dates and false expectations. Zionism produces unjust wars and costly foreign entanglements. Pentecostalism produces glaring con-artists (name any Pentecostal televangelist).

Is Calvinism a bad doctrine? Does it produce bad practical results. I've heard Armenians express concern that Calvinism discourages people from spreading the Gospel. But, I don't think reality bears this out. When America was more Calvinistic, more people were identified as Christian. Every Calvinist, as much as any non-Calvinist, goes to church, talks about their faith with others, and heeds Jesus' call to make disciples in all nations, baptize others, and teach others to keep God's commands.

Calvinism teaches the absolute sovereignty of God and teaches us to trust God in all things. We teach a God who isn't weakened by weak people, and that does good things to one's faith.

 

[Dave G]

JESUS (or His Heavenly Name, JEHOVAH) of Nazareth wanted us to have free Will, unlike His spiritual Brother, Lucifer who wanted EVERY Human to ever be brought into the World to have to choose Lucifer as The Saviour and get into Heaven.

 

[Particular]

I beg your pardon brother and will be more specific in regards to sowing seeds.

Only through His Word can faith come and it is the free will choice of each person who hears His Word. God's call is to everyone and only regenerated believers are the messengers of His complete call using the same transparency He used. His call has never come to anyone spontaneously; IOW, without His Word and the Spirit's pricking. There are no divine appointments or signs or miracles for the last 1900 plus years. There is His complete Word to man and His Spirit poured out over all flesh. If anyone is His elect it is only and always because they elected Him.

All Christ claiming systems of belief and denominational teachings are manufactured traditions of men making the Word of God of none affect. Free yourself from them by taking this challenge:

https://www.jesussaidwhat.com/bread-of-life

So the soil chooses whether it will be hard, be rocky, grow weeds or be fertile? The seed does nothing, but lie there and hope. The person (God) sowing the seed is of no consequence. Only the choice of the soil matters.
Is that how you view the parable?

 

[poor-in-spirit]

So the soil chooses whether it will be hard, be rocky, grow weeds or be fertile? The seed does nothing, but lie there and hope. The person (God) sowing the seed is of no consequence. Only the choice of the soil matters.
Is that how you view the parable?

Oh dear friend. I could no more explain God's Truth in segmented posts than I could explain the color purple to someone blind from birth. My short commentary with plucked out passages of Scripture mean little to those who "see" already.

His Spirit can though but it must be done contextually without adulteration by any system of belief and the heart of those truly seeking Him must be hungry for it. Not proud and lifted up in intellectual theology.
The key is to change from viewing His Word as merely a reference for already initiated theology to what He actually intended from the beginning: The Bread of Life, the Living Water.

On tares I have first hand knowledge having spent many years as a weed in fields of weeds. I was initiated by blind guides and in turn proselyted many myself. Here is a testimony worth reading:

https://www.jesussaidwhat.com/about-this-website

 

[Particular]

Oh dear friend. I could no more explain God's Truth in segmented posts than I could explain the color purple to someone blind from birth. My short commentary with plucked out passages of Scripture mean little to those who "see" already.

His Spirit can though but it must be done contextually without adulteration by any system of belief and the heart of those truly seeking Him must be hungry for it. Not proud and lifted up in intellectual theology.
The key is to change from viewing His Word as merely a reference for already initiated theology to what He actually intended from the beginning: The Bread of Life, the Living Water.

On tares I have first hand knowledge having spent many years as a weed in fields of weeds. I was initiated by blind guides and in turn proselyted many myself. Here is a testimony worth reading:

https://www.jesussaidwhat.com/about-this-website

So you aren't the soil. Your the weed. If you are the weed, you certainly cannot be the seed for the seed is not weed.
Perhaps you misunderstand the parable.

 

[Dave G]

Only through His Word can faith come

Romans 10:17.

it is the free will choice of each person who hears His Word

........

God's call is to everyone

Romans 8:29-30.
Only those that are foreknown, predestinated, justified and glorified are "called".

There is His complete Word to man and His Spirit poured out over all flesh.

His word is to believers ( John 8:47, John 20:30-31, Romans 15:4, 2 Timothy 3:16-17 ), not unbelievers.
The Bible was not written for all men, because the "natural man" cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God ( 1 Corinthians 2:14 ), neither can he know them, for they are spiritually discerned.
That is why the Lord told many of those who followed Him and asked Him many questions:

" Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:43-47 ).

For example, the preaching of the cross is foolishness to them that are perishing, and the power of God to them that are saved ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 ).
For those of you reading this, the reason that you find the preaching of the cross to be the power of God ( instead of foolishness ), is because you are saved.

Yes, I agree that His Spirit was poured out over all flesh...and be glad that it is, or this world would be a nightmare of epic proportions with rampant murders, blood in the streets, constant warfare and pillaging the likes of which no one living today has ever seen.

But someday soon, it will be removed... and then it will be like it was in the days of Noah.


Still...

Christ has power over all flesh, that He might give eternal life to as many as the Father has given Him...and no more ( John 17:2 ).

 

[Dave G]

If anyone is His elect it is only and always because they elected Him.

Are you saying that man, who hates God ( Romans 1:30, John 3:19-20 ) and His Son, Jesus Christ ( Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:9, John 7:7, John 15:18 ), elected Him?
What caused us to do that?

Also, if man elects God, then our efforts are what saves us...
Not His grace.

Our choice would then make all the difference, giving us something to potentially boast about ( Ephesians 2:9 ), and making Him a debtor to the person who makes the right choice ( Romans 4:4 ).
His choice of a person to salvation rips that rug right out from under a person's efforts at gaining His favor...

Making it all of grace, and none of works ( Romans 11:5-6 ).
Do we, as mere men, think that God needs our help in order for Him to save someone?

Not this man.

All Christ claiming systems of belief and denominational teachings are manufactured traditions of men making the Word of God of none affect.

The traditions of men can make the word of God of none effect ( Mark 7:13 ).
However, God's word always accomplishes that which God intends ( Isaiah 55:11 ).

His word, and a seeking Saviour, finds His sheep anywhere His word is preached...even in "denominations".



None of the above was manufactured intellectually, nor was it gained from any source other than the word of God.

 

[37818]

For me it falls under God's omniscience. God cannot not know. We can know on the basis that the New Testament documents are from God and the otherwise phenomenon of actually knowing God in believing God's word. Titus 1:2, 1 John 5:9-13, etc.

 

[glad4mercy]

By "practical theology" I mean your daily Christian life. Does it have a major impact on how you view God? Does it influence how you view and practice evangelism? Is your worship affected by your soteriological position? How about relationships with other Christians? I am of the belief that our theology counts for little if it does not affect how we live. Arguably, since Calvinism/Arminianism generates the most heat on this board, is it so important to you that it is one of the major drivers in your life and if so, why and how?

I used to be an Arminian, and even though my salvation was wholly and entirely by Grace, (radical transformation of heart and life of a man that was found of God while not seeking Him), later in my walk I fell into kind of a "have to perform" theology. This resulted in me somewhat trying to add my strength to God's grace, This in turn produced frustration and defeat.

As I studied the Bible, I began to understand Grace better, (the Grace that I understood in the beginning and partly forgot,),and my heart and life became more settled. I still strive for God's Kingdom, but the motives are different now.

I'm not saying all Arminians are like this. But I was

I used to believe in the possibility of losing salvation, then I went to "not sure", now I believe Jesus when He says that he "will lose none that the Father has given Him."

I am not quite a Calvinist, still struggling with some points, but I am not an Arminian either. I am in between, but much closer to Calvinism, whereas before I was much closer to Arminianism. But I'm still learning and changing.

 

[robycop3]

I know God's word does not go forth uselessly. And I believe if everyone were already predestinated for heaven or hell, with no chance to change one's status, there'd be no use for Bibles, preaching, churches, or worship, period.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

So, ALL have the chance to be saved, as the Scripture says.

 

[Reformed]

And I believe if everyone were already predestinated for heaven or hell, with no chance to change one's status, there'd be no use for Bibles, preaching, churches, or worship, period.

Keep in mind that God has not only predestined the Elect after the counsel of His own will (Ephesians 1:11), But He has also ordained the means by which the Elect are called in-time, i.e. the preaching of the gospel. This means all the things you said would not be needed ("Bibles, preaching, churches, or worship, period") are very much part of the means by which God uses to bring the Elect to faith in Christ.

 

[glad4mercy]

I know God's word does not go forth uselessly. And I believe if everyone were already predestinated for heaven or hell, with no chance to change one's status, there'd be no use for Bibles, preaching, churches, or worship, period.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

So, ALL have the chance to be saved, as the Scripture says.

1. I do not believe in positive/positive double predestination

2. I do not claim to be able to wrap my head around election.

3. I have not embraced the Arminian view of election. I have not fully embraced the Calvinist view either. I find difficulties with both sides. So because of apparent gaps in my understanding regarding election, I wait for further illumination from God rather than pick a side

4. I do know that election is BOTH personal and corporate, and known of God are all His works from the foundation of the world

5. The brother who talked about the things you listed as means of grace was spot on.