How far Did Calvinism Go beyond teaching/Doctrines Of calvin?

[Ruiz]

From their website:

Some of this should be removed. A few years ago they removed their previous subtitle for their website to make them more open to other denominations.

I didn't know they still associate that closely with the SBC still because when they changed their focus, the board members specifically said their mission was to go beyond the SBC.

For instance, Gary Hendrix is a close friend, if not on the board, and is not a SBCer. I know Fred Malone, Tom Nettles, Tom Ascol, and Bill Ascol, but I am not sure they are all still on the board.

Yet, even with this, I would not think their goals were adverse or even varying in direction from the SBC. Danny Akin, for instance, is not reformed but thinks Founders are in alignment with the Baptist Faith and Message 2000. So, I do not think they are sectarian and while not in the majority, they are in alignment with the SBC in general.

 

[Luke2427]

On WHAT basis does God chose to base his divine Election to us, on order for us to become the children of God, found now to be in Jesus?

was it based upon His sovereign Will and purposes, no other?

was it based upon God forseeing that we would make the correct choice and choose Christ to save us?

was it based upon our choosing toaccept christ that caused the election by God, or does His election cause us to receive jesus by faith?

Do you not believe that whether you spend forever in heaven or hell is ultimately up to you?

Is it not true that you believe that the glory for "choosing" really SHOULD go to you since God ONLY made his choice based on the choice he saw that YOU would make?

 

[DHK]

Do you not believe that whether you spend forever in heaven or hell is ultimately up to you?

Is it not true that you believe that the glory for "choosing" really SHOULD go to you since God ONLY made his choice based on the choice he saw that YOU would make?

Why do you assume that there is "glory" in choosing.

Choose ye this day whom ye will serve.
To choose is an obligation.

 

[gb93433]

Yet, in the end, who writes the books that teach the teachers that instruct the pupils so that the faith once given for the saints continues in an orthodox and not heterodox direction? Hard work, TONS of reading, Bible study at a high level in the original languages, all caused by much midnight candle burning are involved in the pursuit of seminary-type education, not a matter of "pride" but rather of hard work that pays dividends in that GOD HIMSELF calls us to be "workmen rightly dividing the word of truth..."

James 1:22 says they are deluded if they are not doers. That is quite simple. While one can study for intellectual profit he only knows what can be obtained intellectually which is so little compared to one who is not a hearer only but also a doer. It impossible to know the mysteries of the faith until he is a doer of the word. Those who are doers see right through the smoke and mirrors of those who only know scripture intellectually. I have read commentaries of OT books written by non-Christians which are written very well.

 

[gb93433]

Do you not believe that whether you spend forever in heaven or hell is ultimately up to you?

Is it not true that you believe that the glory for "choosing" really SHOULD go to you since God ONLY made his choice based on the choice he saw that YOU would make?

Salvation is only in Christ. Without Jesus there would have been no salvation. That has nothing to with me. God requires my response of faith in Jesus. That is my response to Jesus.

 

[Luke2427]

Why do you assume that there is "glory" in choosing.

Choose ye this day whom ye will serve.
To choose is an obligation.

There is glory. Nothing gets glory but that which has choice behind it.

Name any kind of glory that has not choice at the back of it.

Michael Phelps' ability comes from God. But people give him glory and medals and honor because why?

They assume he made choices that enabled him to employ the abilities God gave him.

He chose to work out. He chose to be trained. He chose to sacrifice days and weeks and months of his life to become great. He chose to keep going when the going got tough.

The primary, if not only, reason we give him glory is because of the choices he has made.

EVERY choice comes with consequence. NOTHING BUT CHOICE GETS GLORY.

So, since God chose you ONLY based on the fact that he saw you choose Him- YOU GET THE GLORY FOR the choice.

You can thank God for making salvation possible. But you can thank you for your being saved.

 

[Luke2427]

Salvation is only in Christ. Without Jesus there would have been no salvation. That has nothing to with me. God requires my response of faith in Jesus. That is my response to Jesus.

But faith is not a choice.

Faith happens to you.

It is not something you DO.

 

[Luke2427]

James 1:22 says they are deluded if they are not doers. That is quite simple. While one can study for intellectual profit he only knows what can be obtained intellectually which is so little compared to one who is not a hearer only but also a doer. It impossible to know the mysteries of the faith until he is a doer of the word. Those who are doers see right through the smoke and mirrors of those who only know scripture intellectually. I have read commentaries of OT books written by non-Christians which are written very well.

And some of, if not most of, the greatest doers of the word have been those who do painstakingly further their education.

The truly humble Christian will value such study and acknowledge that it gives the scholar a significant advantage over the one who has not done the study.

The arrogant Christian will snub at the study and claim to have more than the scholar without having sacrificed for the knowledge as much as one tenth that which the scholar employed.

The disdain for scholarship, and I'm not saying that you have it necessarily, is rooted in pride.

 

[DHK]

But faith is not a choice.

Faith happens to you.

It is not something you DO.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
It is my choice to believe (have faith).
In fact I am commanded to believe or not to believe.
Choose ye this day whom ye will serve. It is an obligation.

 

[Luke2427]

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
It is my choice to believe (have faith).
In fact I am commanded to believe or not to believe.
Choose ye this day whom ye will serve. It is an obligation.

You cannot choose to believe.

Belief happens TO YOU.

I challenge you to TRY to choose to believe that the earth is flat.

You don't have a choice but to believe it.

It has been made known to you and you cannot choose to do otherwise than to believe that which you have been persuaded to believe.

Nothing in those verses contradict this fact.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Why would the Bible tell us over and over to repent, and to believe, and to have faith if we cannot choose?

We must have the ability to choose, else God would not have to command us to choose.

This is why I stay as far away as possible from Calvinists. They take a few verses out of context and nullify thousands of verses to justify the few that they believe support their theology.

Calvinism makes no sense biblically. It is contrary to the Bible.

John

 

[Luke2427]

Why would the Bible tell us over and over to repent, and to believe, and to have faith if we cannot choose?

We must have the ability to choose, else God would not have to command us to choose.

This is why I stay as far away as possible from Calvinists. They take a few verses out of context and nullify thousands of verses to justify the few that they believe support their theology.

Calvinism makes no sense biblically. It is contrary to the Bible.

John

Can you choose to be perfect?

 

[seekingthetruth]

You cannot choose to believe.

Belief happens TO YOU.

I challenge you to TRY to choose to believe that the earth is flat.

You don't have a choice but to believe it.

It has been made known to you and you cannot choose to do otherwise than to believe that which you have been persuaded to believe.

Nothing in those verses contradict this fact.

You cannot equate things you know with things you believe.

I know that I had pasta for supper last night because I saw it and ate it. But if I tell you that I had pasta last night, then you have to choose to believe me or not to believe me. You werent there and didnt see it.

That's the same way faith works. You choose to believe in something you can't actually prove because you have never actually seen God.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"(Heb.11:1).

To hope for something you have to choose to believe it is true. And you cannot believe in something you havent seen unless you choose to.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

Can you choose to be perfect?

I cant choose to fly either, because human flight is just as impossible as human perfection. Whats your point?

John

 

[Luke2427]

I cant choose to fly either, because human flight is just as impossible as human perfection. Whats your point?

John

God commands in his Word- BE YE PERFECT EVEN AS YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT.

By your own admission, God does indeed command you to do something you cannot CHOOSE to do.

God commands all kinds of things that men cannot choose to do.

 

[gb93433]

Can you choose to be perfect?

The Jewish idea of perfection, yes.

Mt. 5:48, "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

God's commands are His enablements.

 

[gb93433]

Why would the Bible tell us over and over to repent, and to believe, and to have faith if we cannot choose?

We must have the ability to choose, else God would not have to command us to choose.

This is why I stay as far away as possible from Calvinists. They take a few verses out of context and nullify thousands of verses to justify the few that they believe support their theology.

Calvinism makes no sense biblically. It is contrary to the Bible.

John

I also find some that limit God's creation and sovereignty. We have seen that in the past on BB.

 

[Luke2427]

The Jewish idea of perfection, yes.

Mt. 5:48, "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

God's commands are His enablements.

That statement, I'm afraid, is more bumper sticker material than biblically sound exegesis.

I am not familiar with a single place in the Bible where it is stated that God enables what he commands.

I am familiar with numerous places where the Scripture shows that man literally CANNOT do what God commands.

The fact is that God commanding a person to believe does not at all establish that faith is a choice.

 

[Luke2427]

I also find some that limit God's creation and sovereignty. We have seen that in the past on BB.

You can no more limit God's sovereignty than you can limit his wisdom and power.

God cannot but be exhaustively sovereign if he is always exhaustively powerful and knowledgeable.

This is why the more consistent Arminians embrace Openness theology, in my opinion.

In order to logically limit God's control of all things they must limit his power and knowledge of all things.

 

[Skandelon]

You can no more limit God's sovereignty than you can limit his wisdom and power.

I don't believe anyone argues that WE are doing the 'limiting,' Luke.

This is why the more consistent Arminians embrace Openness theology, in my opinion.

Arminians don't embrace openness theology anymore so than Calvinists embrace hyperism. They may appear more 'logically consistent' to their opponents, but that doesn't mean we embrace them.

In order to logically limit God's control of all things they must limit his power and knowledge of all things.

Just because MLB pitcher Cliff Lee has the power to strike out his 5 year old son with a fast ball every time doesn't mean he wants to.