How human was Jesus/how much like Jesus are we

[Winman]

A christian's mind is not set against God so No that passage is not about a Christian. That passage is about a lost person who is caught up in works and not saved. It is a constant losing battle.

Correct Judith, because you must keep the law PERFECTLY to merit eternal life, and no man except Jesus has ever done that. That is what is meant by being sold under sin. The moment you sin ONCE, you are "sold under sin" and belong to him like a slave belongs to his master. You are brought into "captivity to sin and death". The only escape is to trust Jesus and die with him to sin and be raised again. Only then are we under grace and free from the law of sin.

The scriptures do not show that an unregenerate man cannot will to obey God, Cornelius is a perfect example. The scriptures call him "devout", they say he prayed always, and gave much alms to the people. He was truly a good man who had faith in God, but he was not saved, and he did not have the Holy Spirit until he heard Peter preach. Yet God recognized his good works and sent an angel to tell him to send for Peter whereby he would hear the gospel and be saved.

Total Inability is false teaching.

 

[percho]

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor 15:52,53

Is this the perfection we all seek?

Why must that take place?

The first man Adam was created a living soul and guess what, that was not good or very good enough, the very moment of his creation when the woman was still in him.

He was going to have to be born again.

 

[Winman]

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor 15:52,53

Is this the perfection we all seek?

Why must that take place?

The first man Adam was created a living soul and guess what, that was not good or very good enough, the very moment of his creation when the woman was still in him.

He was going to have to be born again.

Not if he had not sinned. If he had not sinned, then he would not die ---> Eternal Life.

 

[percho]

Not if he had not sinned. If he had not sinned, then he would not die ---> Eternal Life.

If doesn't count cause the lamb was already slain, going to die.

 

[Winman]

If doesn't count cause the lamb was already slain, going to die.

The wages of SIN is death, not the wages of existing. If Adam would not have sinned, he would not have died.

Jesus was not slain till Calvary, but God in his foreknowledge knew man would sin and had already determined Jesus would die for sinners. This is what is meant.

 

[percho]

Presently, whether you be in Christ or not in Christ this is the image you bear.

The first man Adam was made a living soul; 1 Cor 15:45 The image you were born with. 1 Cor 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor 15:52,53

After that takes place and it must take place the following is the image you will bear.

we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1 Cor 15:49 Like the last Adam; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1 Cor 15:45

In Christ = Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Jesus was as human as can be, yet without sin. Tempted just like we. The only human that never sinned.

How much like Jesus will we be?

 

[righteousdude2]

You said the truth...

I believe that you are being honest just wrong. There is NO sin that we have to commit. All sin is a choice. God is not redeming us from things we cannot do but from things we refuse to do. That is why sin is so sinful and grace is so great. One of the things thta Jesus did in living a sinless life was prove flesh and blood does not have to sin. He chose not to and so can we, but most do not.

Now finish that and tells us is anyne, particularly YOU, sin free?

 

[righteousdude2]

One question...

So with all due respect it is you who is missing the point of Christ. He is our example, not our crutch.

As I follow the OPs and comments on the forum, once in a great while, people come along who present themselves as knowing-it-all! You are one more who is presenting their opinions and ideas as perfection warmed over! If you are as perfect and all knowing as you want us to believe ... I need to pay more attention to your comments and teachings, in order to stay on the right track, theologically! :smilewinkgrin:

As for me, I do not profess to be 100% spot on. I know I am human, and human means I have flaws, and the flaws I have are going to be evident in everything I do in life. That is just part of being human. But being human and under the blood of Jesus means, that our flaws are covered and forgiven. We can't be perfect like Him, but, in the eyes of God, you and I are presented to the Father covered in the innocent blood of the Lamb, and we are pardoned.

BTW - I do learn things, from time to time...and I have ideas and opinions that I feel comfortable with, and I thoroughly believe God will correct me here, and in heaven, as to the things, I missed the mark on in this life. However, I am not about to tell anyone on this board that my way is the only way. Or should I say, "My way of the highway?"

The difference between Jesus and you and I, and our brothers and sisters on this board is that where He was infallible, we are fallible. We are prone to making mistakes. The reason 1 John 1 was written. Man I love that entire chapter. I take away from it the need to repent, and hold tight to the hand of my advocate, Jesus. And if I say I do not sin, I am a liar!

I got the following from this link, and I like it, maybe everyone else will too! http://thebigpicmin.wordpress.com/2010/09/07/biblical-sins-the-six-levels-of-sin/

So, with that said, the difference between Jesus and you and I and others is that even though He was tempted, he did not commit any level of sin. Here is a group of sins that we are all subject to being party to. Where Jesus was invited to the same party, but He spiritually decined. He had to decline so He could go to the cross, without sin, so when the devil killed Him, and placed the sin of the world on a sinless man, the devil wrote his own legal death warrent, and from that day on, he knew the end was in the wind!
Level 1: Unintentional Sins.

Unintentional sins are the lowest level of sin. We are to rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal these sins so we don’t keep blindly recommitting them.

Level 2: Besetting Sins

These recurring intentional sins keep us impure. They keep us from running a good race and disqualify us from honorable use. God can still use us for the everyday things, but pure “utensils” are needed for honorable uses.

Level 3: Destroying God’s Temple;

When we destroy our Bodies Thru Sexual Sins we are really destroying God’s temple. If we keep doing this we will force the Holy Spirit to leave us, and God’s wrath falls upon us.

Level 4: Sinning Unto Death

When we continue in these blatant outward sins, specifically when we call ourselves believers and indulge in sexual sins, greed, worship idols, are abusive, or a drunk, or a cheat we are sinning unto death. These sins spoil the worship of our entire gathering. The bible describes these sin-tarnished worship services as useless!

Level 5: Committing the Millstone Sin

When we cause others to sin we are committing the Millstone sin. I believe that this sin is tied in with the stricter judgment for Church leaders. Leaders who take advantage of the simple trust of believers, oppress their followers, or teach un-Biblical doctrines commit this sin.

Level 6: Taking the Mark of the Beast & Blaspheming The Holy Spirit.

Taking the mark of the beast is simply being ordained as a minister of the beast. This includes both the ordained ministers of the beast [The Roman Catholic Priest class system] and his statue [His image, the Protestant Priest class system].

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is presuming to take on the roles and responsibilities of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the leader of the participatory worship gathering. He also leads each believer into all truth, tells them about the future and all that Jesus has for them.

 

[Judith]

Correct Judith, because you must keep the law PERFECTLY to merit eternal life, and no man except Jesus has ever done that. That is what is meant by being sold under sin. The moment you sin ONCE, you are "sold under sin" and belong to him like a slave belongs to his master. You are brought into "captivity to sin and death". The only escape is to trust Jesus and die with him to sin and be raised again. Only then are we under grace and free from the law of sin.

The scriptures do not show that an unregenerate man cannot will to obey God, Cornelius is a perfect example. The scriptures call him "devout", they say he prayed always, and gave much alms to the people. He was truly a good man who had faith in God, but he was not saved, and he did not have the Holy Spirit until he heard Peter preach. Yet God recognized his good works and sent an angel to tell him to send for Peter whereby he would hear the gospel and be saved.

Total Inability is false teaching.

It is not true that keeping the law perfectly will get someone eternal life.We are not lost because we break the law. We are lost because of Adam's sin Romans 5:12.
Also there is no good men Mat 5:17, Romans 3:10-12

 

[Judith]

[cannot allow such a post filled with judgment and hate to stand]

 

[Judith]

[Public warning that this language will get you "points" toward banning, and they will pile up in a hurry. PLEASE demonstrate proper decorum even when you disagree with a poster.]

 

[Winman]

It is not true that keeping the law perfectly will get someone eternal life.We are not lost because we break the law. We are lost because of Adam's sin Romans 5:12.
Also there is no good men Mat 5:17, Romans 3:10-12

Judith, I am sorry, but here you are wrong. Jesus himself said that if a man keeps the commandments he would inherit eternal life.

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Note that this lawyer asked Jesus how he might "inherit" eternal life. Do not confuse that with being saved from sin, if a person never sinned, they would not be lost and would not require salvation. Salvation is to be saved from your sins.

But note Jesus asked him what was written in the law. The lawyer answered to love God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Please note that Jesus told the lawyer he had answered correctly, and that if he kept all the commandments he would live.

The problem is, there is no man who has not sinned except Jesus. Nevertheless, if a man did not sin, he would live forever.

And as for Original Sin, this scripture refutes it. If we are born dead in sin, then we could not live by keeping the law as Jesus said.

The scriptures do not teach that we are born dead or that we sinned in Adam. In Romans chapter 7 Paul clearly teaches that he was spiritually alive until he learned the law. When he learned the law he was convicted as a sinner and "died". This must be spiritual death, he could not possibly be saying he physically died.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Paul was not born dead in sin, he was alive until he learned the law.

The scriptures are also clear that the son shall not bear the sins of his father or vice versa, but every man dies for his own personal sin.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Original Sin is a false doctrine started primarily by Augustine who used a flawed Latin text. The Eastern church that used Greek texts never agreed with Augustine interpretation, and Augustine's doctrine clearly contradicts scripture.

1. The Vulgate, a fourth-century Latin translation of the Bible, wrongly translated the last clause of Romans 5:12. Where the Greek text has, "Because all men sinned," the Vulgate rendered, "In whom all sinned." Adam was regarded as the unnamed antecedent of "in whom."

2. Upon the basis of this translation error in the Vulgate, Augustine (a.d. 354-430) developed his doctrine of original sin. He taught that all men were seminally present in the loins of Adam when he sinned. Thus he held that the whole human race sinned in Adam's sin. By virtue of our physical descent from Adam, we inherit his guilt. We are born guilty of original sin, according to Augustine. …

http://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/pe...nevitably-leading-to-heresy-if-not-worse.html

Scripture does not say we are born dead in sin, in fact, scripture says man was made upright.

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Many falsely try to say this verse is speaking of Adam only, but the word they is plural, pointing back to the word man, showing this verse is speaking of all men. Also, "many inventions" rules out that this verse is speaking of the one single sin that Adam committed in the garden.

Original Sin is false doctrine.

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman

The scriptures do not teach that we are born dead or that we sinned in Adam.

QUOTE]Original Sin is false doctrine[/QUOTE].

Todays repeated denial of scripture...day after day....error upon error...man did not die, God learns things, very sad.

 

[Winman]

Winman






Todays repeated denial of scripture...day after day....error upon error...man did not die, God learns things, very sad.

Unfortunately for you, people can read.

 

[Iconoclast]

Unfortunately for you, people can read.

Yes they see your falsehoods everyday repeated over and over...no one believes them...so no need to repeat such error,:thumbs:

 

[Winman]

Yes they see your falsehoods everyday repeated over and over...no one believes them...so no need to repeat such error,:thumbs:

Oh, I'm sure you would love for me to quit posting scripture that easily refutes Calvinism.

I simply show the scripture and let folks read and decide for themselves what scripture is saying.

 

[Iconoclast]

Oh, I'm sure you would love for me to quit posting scripture that easily refutes Calvinism.

I simply show the scripture and let folks read and decide for themselves what scripture is saying.

Nobody believes any of the verses you have twisted rom 7 eccl7 etc...no one agrees..... no one even reads them anymore.

 

[Judith]

Judith, I am sorry, but here you are wrong. Jesus himself said that if a man keeps the commandments he would inherit eternal life.

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Note that this lawyer asked Jesus how he might "inherit" eternal life. Do not confuse that with being saved from sin, if a person never sinned, they would not be lost and would not require salvation. Salvation is to be saved from your sins.

But note Jesus asked him what was written in the law. The lawyer answered to love God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Please note that Jesus told the lawyer he had answered correctly, and that if he kept all the commandments he would live.

The problem is, there is no man who has not sinned except Jesus. Nevertheless, if a man did not sin, he would live forever.

And as for Original Sin, this scripture refutes it. If we are born dead in sin, then we could not live by keeping the law as Jesus said.

The scriptures do not teach that we are born dead or that we sinned in Adam. In Romans chapter 7 Paul clearly teaches that he was spiritually alive until he learned the law. When he learned the law he was convicted as a sinner and "died". This must be spiritual death, he could not possibly be saying he physically died.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Paul was not born dead in sin, he was alive until he learned the law.

The scriptures are also clear that the son shall not bear the sins of his father or vice versa, but every man dies for his own personal sin.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Original Sin is a false doctrine started primarily by Augustine who used a flawed Latin text. The Eastern church that used Greek texts never agreed with Augustine interpretation, and Augustine's doctrine clearly contradicts scripture.



http://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/pe...nevitably-leading-to-heresy-if-not-worse.html

Scripture does not say we are born dead in sin, in fact, scripture says man was made upright.

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Many falsely try to say this verse is speaking of Adam only, but the word they is plural, pointing back to the word man, showing this verse is speaking of all men. Also, "many inventions" rules out that this verse is speaking of the one single sin that Adam committed in the garden.

Original Sin is false doctrine.

No it is you who is wrong. The law cannot get people into heaven even if kept perfectly. We are born sinners. We do not get lost at some point. All have sinned in Adam. Romans 5:12
Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.NIV

 

[Winman]

Nobody believes any of the verses you have twisted rom 7 eccl7 etc...no one agrees..... no one even reads them anymore.

I don't twist the verses, in fact, I have been accused numerous times of "believing the scriptures for what they say, not what they mean". Now, that is a ridiculous thing to say, I believe the scriptures mean what they say, and they say what they mean.

If the scriptures do not say what they mean, how could anybody understand them?

Last week I believe it was GreekTim who called me a "literalist". He knows I am not twisting the scriptures, I believe them for what they simply and plainly say.

You are the one that has to copy and paste a novel to explain why the phrase "all men" doesn't mean all men. :laugh:

I believe most folks are very smart and savvy. Show them the scripture and they will figure out what it is saying. You can't fool all the people all the time.

 

[Iconoclast]

No it is you who is wrong. The law cannot get people into heaven even if kept perfectly. We are born sinners. We do not get lost at some point. All have sinned in Adam. Romans 5:12
Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.NIV

Of course Judith...some deny scripture ...over and over again:thumbs: