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How many liberals does it take to win a war?
- Thread starter carpro
- Start date
When we talk about war and cowardice at the same time, most people are thinking about "physical" cowardice, as you are.
I'm sure if you weren't so blinded by your feelings that you feel you must defend your ideology, you would have a better understanding of this poem.
I'm sure if you weren't so blinded by your feelings that you feel you must defend your ideology, you would have a better understanding of this poem.
emeraldctyangel
New Member
If that were the long standing policy of the more evolved community some believe they live in, then there would be no reason to continue this arguement.
That asks how long *you* think your agenda will be respected when the people you think your campaign protects are slaughtered by the very one's you claim are innocent or misquided.
But Hey! I have a great idea..ice cream and hugs for everyone!
Yeah, that'll help.
I've asked twice already, but you haven't answered except with taunts. I'm beginning to think you cannot say...
For the third time, what, in your own words, is the poem about? </font>[/QUOTE]I'm sorry, Daisy. I just can't say it any better than Russ.
It's more of a mind set or attitude than it is cowardice. It's an unwillingness to recognize and face a threat squarely instead of making excuses for you attackers
Karl Rove said it pretty well and was royally castigated for it when he said "Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 in the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers."
Russ said the same thing when he wrote:
"With your same old clueless “feelings” you now decry this war;
And with your same old fuzzy logic, common sense you still ignore.
We must look into “root causes” and we must try to “feel their pain;”
Pardon if our eyes start rolling, at your same old lame refrain."
Even a liberal will fight when cornered. The question is will the rest of us survive until they realize they are already there.
Originally posted by ASLANSPAL:
[QB] FYI
Democrats
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor,
Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze
Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze
Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &
Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve,
1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army
Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star
and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple
Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne,
Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in
Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.
Entered draft but received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy. Graduate of Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal
with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII.
* Paul Hackett: Major, USMC, Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Republicans
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the
last by marriage.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to
teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man
who attacked Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight
instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year
Air National Guard tour of duty; got assigned to Alabama so he could
campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a
non-combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting
was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although
continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National
Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army
base.
* John Bolton: "I didn't want to die in some South Asian rice paddy. . ."
Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a
'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at
things that don't shoot back.)
* Neal Boortz: did not serve.
I doubt your corner analogy carpro as for the
above list a lot of spoiled rich republican leaders well connected were not even close to being cornered...they were no where to be seen
running so fast that moderates and democrats
saw them as a blur running away as they moved
forward.and bush was absent that is pretty much
accepted or can be explained as dictating his
terms to commanders because of who he was.
Carpro you said:
It's more of a mind set or attitude than it is cowardice. (now read the list again and speak
of mindset and attitude)
I would say it is not
even a mindset on the "did not serve list" it
really was fear.
So my opinion and my salient point is your topic
is weak according to the list.imho
kind of like that old Wendys commercial "Wheres
the beef!"
That's a pity.
There you go, third time's the charm...
And his diatribe was roundly refuted by the facts. Appealing to emotion at the expense of the facts is a wonderfully effective propaganda technique.
Russ does the same thing when he writes:
I feel compelled to a little eyerolling of my own. I suppose it is the progressive approach to get at the root cause of problems, but it's also sensible, whether common among the reactionaries or not.Aslanspal's list shows the lie in that statement.
Are you contending that the world's most powerful nation is "cornered" by a handful of third-world terrorists? Yes, I can see why you'd be terrified of your survival until the liberals come around to your "crush, kill" philosophy.
poncho
Well-Known Member
"I'm sure if you weren't so blinded by your feelings that you feel you must defend your ideology, you would have a better understanding of this poem."
Your not trying to defend any ideology by posting this OP are you Carpro? Like maybe the neocon ideology of playing on your "feelings" to scare you into submitance to their goals.
That's how it looks to me, but I'll give you the opportunity for a rebutal without the lame name calling techniques the neocons seem to always resort too.
The floor is yours.
Your not trying to defend any ideology by posting this OP are you Carpro? Like maybe the neocon ideology of playing on your "feelings" to scare you into submitance to their goals.
That's how it looks to me, but I'll give you the opportunity for a rebutal without the lame name calling techniques the neocons seem to always resort too.
The floor is yours.
Obviously he was answering the OP's contention that only right-wingers are willing to fight and that all left-wingers are sniveling cowards by presenting evidence to the contrary. </font>[/QUOTE]The problem with the list is that it a) lists men who were of service age before conservatives took over the GOP and b) is anecdotal.
A better test would be the voting preference of our military... overwhelmingly conservative even without factoring out minorities.
Daisy, Since you posted the list then you should "prove" the assumptions about Republicans.
Please "prove" that Bob Dornan intentionally enlisted after Korea.
Please prove the conclusions about GWB. The press tried to make that dog hunt and couldn't. Bush served his obligation to the satisfaction of his commanders... and no one has ever proven different even though his records (versus Kerry) were laid open.
Please "prove" that Bob Dornan intentionally enlisted after Korea.
Please prove the conclusions about GWB. The press tried to make that dog hunt and couldn't. Bush served his obligation to the satisfaction of his commanders... and no one has ever proven different even though his records (versus Kerry) were laid open.
That's a weird sentence - "If that were ... " subjective tense, meaning 'it is not' "... the long standing policy ..." as if the length of time a particular policy has stood determined it's validity - but this policy has already been determined not to exist by the tense of the preceding verb "...of the more evolved community..." I have no idea what a more evolved community means or implies "...some believe they live in,... who are these mysterious people who believe they live in a 'more evolved community', whatever that is, which does not have a long standing policy of refuting lies? "...then there would be no reason to continue this arguement" future conditional, the condition is false, so 'no reason' becomes 'the reason', turned around, we get -
'The reason to continue this arguement is that some people falsely believe they live in a more evolved community and this community they don't live in does not have a long standing policy of letting lies stand unanswered.'
Well, ok, sure.
That begs the question, actually many questions. I don't necessarily think *my* agenda (such as it may be), will be respected, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Who does Russ think I'm claiming as innocent? I know who I think is misguided, but I doubt that is who you think I think is (this day is filled with awful sentences).
It might. I'd like some, please - ice cream, not so much the group hugs.But Hey! I have a great idea..ice cream and hugs for everyone!
Yeah, that'll help.
The truth is I paid no attention to your list in the first place. The reason was simple, you missed the point and I expect you will continue to do so.
However, in actually taking a quick scan of your list, I was struck more by some of the names that were missing than the ones that were there.
Was it intentional on your part to leave out Republicans like President George H.W. Bush and Senator Bob Dole and democrats like Zell Miller? </font>[/QUOTE]Right on target, Carpro!
ASLANSPAL has a habit of posting the same information several times when he gets cornered and wants to change subjects. I think it's partly a tactic to bump his responses to the top of the thread in hopes the previous postings won't be seen and read.
poncho
Well-Known Member
"ASLANSPAL has a habit of posting the same information several times when he gets cornered and wants to change subjects. I think it's partly a tactic to bump his responses to the top of the thread in hopes the previous postings won't be seen and read."
Funny,...the same thing could be said of the neocons and the corporate MSM. Although they (neocons and media) have a far greater propaganda machine than ASLANSPAL.
Funny,...the same thing could be said of the neocons and the corporate MSM. Although they (neocons and media) have a far greater propaganda machine than ASLANSPAL.
Baptist in Richmond
Active Member
Yes, you are right: why is George McGovern on that list?Originally posted by KenH:
I have a feeling that ASLANSPAL was rather selective as to which Democrats and Republicans he chose to put in each list.
Amazing: those who rattle the sabres the loudest are least likely to actually serve.......
Regards, Ken,
BiR