How many liberals does it take to win a war?

[carpro]

The list is misleading and apparently you or someone else hand picked them to best make your point.

BTW Where are George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, and Zell Miller since you didn't respond the first time.

Not that it matters to the central thrust of this thread, but I'll take a moment to respond to your "gerrymandered" list.


Military Service in the Congress by Party
(Combined House of Representatives and Senate)

Republicans with military service: 15.7%
Democrats with military service: 9.7%
Independants with military service: 0.2%


Military Service in the Senate Armed Services Committee by Party
Republicans with military service: 26.1%
Democrats with military service: 13%


Military Service in the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee by Party
Republicans with military service: 28.6%
Democrats with military service: 7.1%
Independants with military service: 7.1%


Military Service in the House Committee on Armed Services by Party
Republicans with military service: 19.7%
Democrats with military service: 13.1%


Military Service in the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs by Party
Republicans with military service: 24%
Democrats with military service: 12%

 

[emeraldctyangel]

Trying to make sense of your words is not splitting hairs, although there may well be no sense there to be made.

Oh but it wont stop you from trying I see.

Seen and replied to before you posted as you clearly can see. Did you notice emeraldctyangel contradicted carpro's allegation?

Oh I didnt contradict Capro, what I said in the second paragraph is all my opinion. Of you - because its alllll about you. And I find you boring. If you do not like the poem fine - but really who cares? It isnt full of hate, it is apparently written with many ideas you have no ability to grasp. Nothing wrong with that but continued posting about posting about what he said she said, takes civil discussion and flushes down the plumbing.

The "it" kept from being so is "civil discussion" and since the discussion is ongoing, the civility must be lacking. Sorry to keep parsing sentences for you but I don't know how else to explain the point

And yet you keep on truckin. Yay.

Oooooo! Is that a threat in your yet?

Not a threat from me, but if you want to have your fantasy, you are certainly entitled. Even ignorance has consequences.

A poison pen and a bitter heart makes for a nasty mess o'words.

Hmmm you havent heard much rap music lately have you? *shakes head*

The poem doesn't have to be full of nasty, inflammatory rhetoric.

Neither do your posts, yet we tolerate you just the same. How bout a little in return?

Q: How many liberals does it take to win a war?

A: For which side?

Overheard at a liberal rally..."wait, there are sides?"

 

[Daisy]

Originally posted by carpro:
The list is misleading and apparently you or someone else hand picked them to best make your point.

Well, duh. The list, I imagine, was compiled specifically to refute the "liberals/Democrats won't fight" idiocy of the poem. Refuatations of the original point are not required to represent all sides equally.

BTW Where are George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, and Zell Miller since you didn't respond the first time.

Where are those men? Left off as irrelevent to the arguement.

Not that it matters to the central thrust of this thread, but I'll take a moment to respond to your "gerrymandered" list.

Yeah, as opposed to your fair and balanced poem...

Well, I guess we'll just have to russtle up some nice counter-poems, eh? Apparently, all sides are to be presented.

 

[ASLANSPAL]

The poem was countered and has nothing to do
with anyone speaking out military or non-military
but it has to do with puffed out self righteousness and trying divide...when if fact
people will fight from left to right to moderate.
World War II is a prime example...George McGovern
is a prime example.

to the Poet I would say "The humble will be exalted"

Without moderates to liberals in your ranks their
would be no fight. imho

The poem was not fair and balanced but instead
divisive..and that is why the counter point and
a legitimate one. The topic was divisive and suggested people will not fight because of a
certain label and I countered that.

If you find a poem that actually unites then you
have a fight on your hands and winning hand.

Sincerely
Aslanspal

 

[Daisy]

Originally posted by emeraldctyangel:
Oh but it wont stop you from trying I see.

No, should it?

Oh I didnt contradict Capro,...

You did, directly.

...what I said in the second paragraph is all my opinion. Of you - because its alllll about you. And I find you boring.

Then don't make personal attacks on me. Your personal attacks do derail the thread. It is boring, but it is difficult not to respond to an attack...and since this particular thread is about liberals fighting back (or not) when attacked, perhaps, in this case, my defending myself is directly illustrative of my point.

If you do not like the poem fine - but really who cares?

You, evidently.

It isnt full of hate,...

Who said it was?

...it is apparently written with many ideas you have no ability to grasp.

Let's see: "liberals are stupid and cowardly, so smart, brave conservative soldiers do their fighting and thinking for them". It's not rocket science.

Nothing wrong with that but continued posting about posting about what he said she said, takes civil discussion and flushes down the plumbing.

Only when what he or she says is uncivil - such as name-calling or caracturizing a fellow poster in an insulting manner. Trying to understand what someone is saying is not uncivil.

Speaking of which, what does "barney style" mean?

And yet you keep on truckin. Yay.

Trying to understand and be understood? Sure.

Hmmm you havent heard much rap music lately have you? *shakes head*

This is relevent, how?

Neither do your posts, yet we tolerate you just the same. How bout a little in return?

My posts aren't, you don't and you get lots.

Overheard at a liberal rally..."wait, there are sides?"

 

[Daisy]

To carry on the wolf metaphor:

The Wolf in White-man's Burden

The wolf in white-man's burden
takes new guise, all to con
and colonialize the sudden
'terror', the Persian son.
What is it, wolf, that you have done?

Why is it, sheep, that we have followed?
For fear of hounding in the fold,
and for black riches — thus we've sowed
in deceit the burden of another's gold,
to seek the other's gain, to spread the western mold.

Christopher John Donato (<-linkie)
31 years old
Christopher John Donato works as an editor for a Christian religious publication.

 

[carpro]

Daisy, you'll really love this one.

A Useful Death

A mother’s anguish turns to ire,
Her liquid tears to spears of fire,
A useful fool for the liberal Left,
All hatred now, no more bereft.
The honor which her son embraced,
Is now dishonored, now disgraced,
As his mother stands atop his grave,
From there to shriek, from there to rave.

Yes, some are maddened in their grief,
And grief can surely change belief;
But this woman’s views, her family say,
Have long been held, long fore today,
Enabling Leftists to use her grieving,
For Moore deception, Moore deceiving.
I see this mother as a willing fool,
A useful Moorish Code Pinko tool.

As one who fought in another place,
I sorrow for this boy’s disgrace,
By a zealot mother grafting grief
Stealing his brave deeds, an honor thief,
Usurping his valor to claim her share,
Five minutes of fame in Media’s glare.
Her platform one you don’t see often:
A dishonored, flag-draped, soldier’s coffin.

I can hear Michael Moore muttering under his breath,
“Yeah, this was really a useful death.”

Russ Vaughn

 

[Daisy]

Here's another one for you, representing a different pov:

Terrorism

Foreigners send agents, surveillance
to photograph your land
spy on your peoples
strategize against your national defenses
map the resources under your earth
determine profits to be taken
from you and your children
foment unrest in your streets
destroy your culture.

Foreigners send their corporations
to take your natural resources
they manipulate your government
they set up puppet leaders who
impose odious rules on you
give away your national property
they install shipping and pipelines
to carry off your wealth
leaving you with crumbs.

Foreigners send their missionaries
to convert your children
in the guise of "helping" you
they violate your religion
in the streets of your town
they build their churches
on the land of your fathers
they teach their ways to your children
in schools built on your land.

Foreigners send death across your skies
not just one or two explosions, no,
countless explosions, bombs
smart, dumb, clustered
dropping from airplanes
delivered by missiles
killing, maiming, destroying,
flattening whole cities
spreading ruin over your countryside.

Foreigners send helicopters, tanks
to spread death in your streets
they tear down every place of shelter
they defile your places of worship
bring ruin to your institutions
pollute the water you drink
spoil the air you breathe
dump their sewage where they please
then ridicule your suffering.

Foreigners send their armies
to murder your neighbors
they abuse your families
they kick down your doors
they enter your house and
drag grown men outside
they threaten with assault rifles
they curse your women and children
they spread your belongings in the street.

When you fight back, when
you resist with whatever
side-arms, home-made booby traps
any antiquated weapons you can carry
when you hate them,
when you show them a minute fraction
of the suffering they spread
then they imprison you
for questioning and torture.

They call you a terrorist
because you defend yourself
against impossible odds,
rifles against tanks, and
occasionally, when their attention lapses
you give them what they have given you
and they cry out that you are
unfair, you are monsters,
you are inhuman, you are terrorists.

They did the same to my people.
They do the same to any people
who are not like them,
who will not be enslaved,
who will not be dispossessed,
who will not suffer corporate filth
to over-run, suck dry and ruin
the land, the country.

They call it "spreading freedom."
They call it "Democracy."
In private, they call it "huge profits," and
laugh as they count the money.

Thomas Hubbard (linkie)
66 years old
retired teacher

 

[carpro]

Russ Vaughn does represent my point of view pretty well.

Does Hubbard represent yours in this poem?

 

[emeraldctyangel]

Without moderates to liberals in your ranks their would be no fight. imho

Sure there would. They would fight each other. Kind of like you and a few others insist on doing in here (lame really).

They call you a terrorist
because you defend yourself
against impossible odds,
rifles against tanks, and
occasionally, when their attention lapses
you give them what they have given you
and they cry out that you are
unfair, you are monsters,
you are inhuman, you are terrorists.

Yeah those poor terrorists opps! I mean airline passengers. Perhaps they didnt like the way the pilot kept turning on the FASTEN SEATBELTS sign and felt it denied them their rights. That sign does often make me want to take over the plane and ram it into the nearest tall building.

I dont know how Hubbard sleeps at night. With that kind of deep thought, it would seem he would convert to being a goat farmer in South America or something. After all, being a former educator, he is a large part of the American problem teaching all those draconian American ways. *smirk*

Self hate is such a terrible human condition.


Hint:
If you want to debate grammar, slang, or otherwise start a new post. If not, continue to threadjack and be ignored. *shrugs*

 

[Daisy]

Originally posted by carpro:
Russ Vaughn does represent my point of view pretty well.

Does Hubbard represent yours in this poem?

This written from a supposed Iraqi pov. You criticized the A-list for being onesided, so I thought you'd appreciate more sides represented in the Verse-Off. So far, you've only presented your own - a bit unbalanced, don't you think, in a goose-gander way?

I have sympathy for the Iraqi civilians caught in a war soon to be a civil war. I also have sympathy for exploited 3rd world countries.

Here's one from WWI:

Conscious

His fingers wake, and flutter; up the bed.
His eyes come open with a pull of will,
Helped by the yellow mayflowers by his head.
The blind-cord drawls across the window-sill...
What a smooth floor the ward has! What a rug!
Who is that talking somewhere out of sight?
Three flies creeping round the shiny jug...
'Nurse! Doctor!'-'Yes; all right, all right.'


But sudden evening muddles all the air.
There seems no time to want a drink of water.
Nurse looks so far away. And here and there
Music and roses burst through crimson slaughter.
He can't remember where he saw blue sky...
The trench is narrower. Cold, he's cold; yet hot-
And there's no light to see the voices by...
There is no time to ask...he knows not what.

Wilfred Owens

 

[Daisy]

Originally posted by emeraldctyangel:
[*** ranting & smirking omitted ***]

Hey emeraldctyangel,

What does 'barney style' mean?

Inquisitive minds want to know.

 

[ASLANSPAL]

(eca could be coming from a flintstones point of view)
or

(or eca may like the
Color Purple)

(nah! probably not this point of view)

(maybe I would not be surprised..mayberry is beloved on this board)

(bush has to explain things to
his dog ..so perhaps it is this one)

<gig>

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by Daisy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carpro:
Russ Vaughn does represent my point of view pretty well.

Does Hubbard represent yours in this poem?

This written from a supposed Iraqi pov. You criticized the A-list for being onesided, so I thought you'd appreciate more sides represented in the Verse-Off. So far, you've only presented your own - a bit unbalanced, don't you think, in a goose-gander way?

</font>[/QUOTE]Apples and oranges.

I posted Russ's poem because, in large part, his poem reflects my views. I don't have to be even handed when it comes to my own POV.

APAL on the other hand , posted a list to make a point. The list is obviously doctored and is a misrepresentation of the point he was making. I consider it a dishonest attempt to make a point that wouldn't stand up on it's own without deception.

Russ's poem is his own and no one elses. You may not agree with his POV, but at least it's his. No deception needed.

Russ is not fancy and he doesn't mince words. It's always easy to tell what's on his mind.

BTW I like the last poem. Thanks.

 

[Daisy]

Originally posted by carpro:
Apples and oranges.

I posted Russ's poem because, in large part, his poem reflects my views. I don't have to be even handed when it comes to my own POV.

APAL on the other hand , posted a list to make a point. The list is obviously doctored and is a misrepresentation of the point he was making. I consider it a dishonest attempt to make a point that wouldn't stand up on it's own without deception.

Russ's poem is his own and no one elses. You may not agree with his POV, but at least it's his. No deception needed.

Let's see, you posted a poem which reflects your views and Russ's views - that's applesauce for the goose.

Aslanspal disputes one of the main points of this pov the poem represents, so he posts a factual list as evidence - but that's orange sauce for the gander not because the facts on the list are false, but because they are selected to support his pov and not yours?

It's ok for the OP to be not only one-sided, but completely disparaging of another side (including allegations of stupidity and cowardice), but his refutation must not only support his side, but your side as well? Hmmm, those are, um, interesting debate rules, but not exactly conventional or conservative in the old-fashioned sense.

His point is that liberals/Democrats are not necessarily cowards who won't fight and non-liberals/Republicans are not necessarily brave fighting men. If you want to argue that certain names don't belong on the list, that's a valid arguement, but if you are arguing that his list must include names irrelevent to his point, that is a ridiculous arguement.

BTW I like the last poem. Thanks.

You're welcome. More to come...

[ August 18, 2005, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Daisy ]

 

[carpro]

Intentional deception is the same as ...what?

Fill in the blank.

 

[Daisy]

Originally posted by carpro:
Intentional deception is the same as ...what?

Fill in the blank.

Whose intentional deception are you speaking of? You'll have to be more specific.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by ASLANSPAL:
Just as a courtesy to be on the same page and save time...love effiency ..here is the list.

...

you can thank me later Dragoon68 after you get back from your black [helicopter] ride with Janet Reno.

You're really getting silly with your postings, ASLANSPAL.

You've posted this selective listing three times now. Are you looking for extra credit for doing that or just flooding this thread? Be honest now!

Janet Reno must be one of your heroes. She's certainly not one of mine!

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Daisy:
Here's another one for you, representing a different pov:

...

Thomas Hubbard (linkie)
66 years old
retired teacher

This article represents a very flawed point of view. It's a typical liberal point of view that discredits our motives and methods, places us in the role of evil aggressor and oppressor, and blames us for "all" that's wrong in the world. It cheapens the sacrifices of all those who serve and who have served. It's a view that doesn't support winning wars and is very harmful to our nation.

Those who support this view, in effect, support our enemies. It is truly disgusting that any American could buy into such a point of view.

More specifically, it clearly illustrates why liberal thinking can not win wars.

 

[Daisy]

Originally posted by Dragoon68:
This article represents a very flawed point of view.

It's a poem, not an article, and as such, far better than Russ's.

It's a typical liberal point of view that discredits our motives and methods, places us in the role of evil aggressor and oppressor, and blames us for "all" that's wrong in the world.

No, not "all", just certain, specific things.

It cheapens the sacrifices of all those who serve and who have served.

No, it doesn't. It merely decries imperialism.

It's a view that doesn't support winning wars and is very harmful to our nation.

No, it's a view that doesn't support starting wars - that would have saved our nation much grief had it been heeded.

Those who support this view, in effect, support our enemies.

Utter nonsense. This poem shows how an innocent civilian who was NOT an enemy before the invasion, becomes one.

It is truly disgusting that any American could buy into such a point of view.

What is disgusting wanting to invade countries that pose no credible threat to us and pretending that it is moral and right.

More specifically, it clearly illustrates why liberal thinking can not win wars.

No, it shows clearly why liberal thinking PREVENTS such wars. Once thinking such as yours gets us into these horrible messes, liberals fight to set things right as ably as anyone.