Scripture?
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How many of the Spirit Gifts still operating, and are they anyApostles/prophets today?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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Quite apart from my post, you are claiming prophets and apostles and more are walking the earth. Those are weighty claims that must be tested. What evidence of this do you provide?
atpollard
Well-Known Member
MOST of the 12 Apostles recorded NO scripture.
Isn’t that a fly in the soup of your definition of Apostle?
atpollard
Well-Known Member
There are scores (if not hundreds) of people currently working to plant new churches among the unsaved ... how certain are you that NONE of them have been “sent” by Jesus to that specific task? That IS the definition of an Apostle in the Bible ... “one sent” by Jesus to establish His Church.
There are THOUSANDS of people that claim to have received and offered a word of prophecy. How sure are you that ALL of them are false Prophets?
I find no scripture affirming an end to the five fold ministry until Jesus returns (the Perfect comes), do you?
No, for even the ones that did not record scriptures down were authorized to verbally explain it!
Hebrews 2:4 past tense of the signs and wonders, were already done by, but not being done now!
Any always accurate on predictions, or doing signs and wonders that can be verified and proven? Most of those claiming to be such are in word of faith, and they teach heresies, so would not trust any of their claims!
I see none supporting that those claiming to be prophets and Apostles as used in the OT and in Acts still exist!
Verse 3 is also past tense. Want to apply the same logic to salvation?
the truth is that the Apostles were given by God to impart to us the NT doctrines and theology, and to give credit to Jesus by their signs and wonders, so that would no longer be needed!
I am sure, biblically speaking, that there are no apostles today, nor are there people we can look to as prophets.
Where are their amazing miracles to prove their station as an apostle the whole of Christianity must listen to (2 Corinthians 12:12)? Aren’t those commissioned by the risen Christ Himself apostles? Have they physically met the risen Christ by going to heaven? How can we trust anyone that claims apostleship without evidence to the fact? Also we must test if the Jesus that supposedly commissioned them is like the real one recorded of in the bible.
As for prophets. I am open to the idea they exist, but they must have 100% true prophecy all of the time. Deuteronomy 13:1-5 and Deuteronomy 18:15-22 demand it. I have never heard of anyone who has this ability, and is sent by God to speak to us as the church.
What would the modern day Apostles and prophets do, as their main function was to speak to the Future and to give forth doctrines and theology, do we not have that all now?
There are no modern apostles. I don't know what a modern day prophet would do, if they really spoke for God with perfect prophecy. I suspect they would have to be the two witnesses of Revelation. Nevertheless, I was talking to atpollard, not you Yeshua.
I would suspect that if the Church used the same standard of accuracy, not too many would be left standing!
That is your opinion, by only a tiny part of that opinion can be backed by scripture.
You are expert at turning opinion into doctrine.
It really depends on how you define Apostle and Prophet.
I get that.
I'm trying to keep things to the biblical words.
How the term prophet, OT words for prophet and the Greek Prophetes, are used in the bible. 1 Corinthians 14 explains how they are to function in the church.
The word apostle, or apostolos, and how it is used in the bible. The Twelve, including Matthias, and Paul really.
I want to avoid modern constructs added to the words.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
How did Andrew fulfill the function of an Apostle? Or Simon the Zealot?
You are judging all Apostles by the work given to only 3 of the 12 Apostles (John, Peter and Paul). So what did the other 9 Apostles do?
There are other named Apostles that did not function as the 12+1+1 and were not called in the same manner.
As to prophet, I will take the view one of my professors took. He used to say, there is no scripture that proves there are not modern prophets. If someone wants to claim the office, we should judge them as Scripture judged the prophet. They prophesy falsely one time, they are a false prophet and should be stoned.(of course today that stoning would be figurative)
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I looked into that in a concordance just now. The only verses I found that don't speak to the Twelve, or Paul, or Jesus the apostle of our faith, or false apostles, are:
Romans 16:7
2 Corinthians 8:23
Philippians 2:25
1 Thessalonians 2:6-7
The more common use of the Greek word could be used here as "envoys" of the churches or apostles. I need to do more homework, and can't be certain yet. However, these verses do not seem enough evidence to base any hard and fast doctrines laying out kooky ideas until we have looked into this more.
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