How many of the Spirit Gifts still operating, and are they anyApostles/prophets today?

[JonShaff]

Wait a minute, aren't missionaries just evangelists that take the Gospel overseas? Isn't missionary a man made construct? Evangelists spread the Gospel or Good News of Jesus Christ to people. In America we call those who work out of domestic churches evangelists, and those spreading the Word to new territory missionaries. However, the original Greek lacks that distinction.
What is Evangelism? | CARM.org

In short, no, Missionaries/apostles are not evangelists. They "Do the work of an evangelist" but they are distinct giftings.

And side note, those "circuit evangelists" that are in most American Church circles are not evangelists, they are prophets--calling God's people to a greater obedience to the New Covenant.

 

[Yeshua1]

In short, no, Missionaries/apostles are not evangelists. They "Do the work of an evangelist" but they are distinct giftings.

And side note, those "circuit evangelists" that are in most American Church circles are not evangelists, they are prophets--calling God's people to a greater obedience to the New Covenant.

They might have a "prophetic" take on scriptures being applied today, but none can foretell the future as OT prophets could and did!

 

[JonShaff]

I could agree with you that the modern equivalent of the Apostle would be missionaries, especially those gifted to plants and administer local churches, just as long as we do not see them as gifted to do signs and wonders, or write new scriptures today!

Well, consider this. If a Missionary/Apostle goes to a new area preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Bible says that his message can be "confirmed" with signs and wonders. I wouldn't put God in a box, nor would i want to dismiss the plain teachings of Scripture.

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree with that.

good, as that means that we agree that there are none in the sense that many say Word of faith see themselves as being!

 

[JonShaff]

They might have a "prophetic" take on scriptures being applied today, but none can foretell the future as OT prophets could and did!

Jesus Christ is coming soon! Is that not prophetic? Agabus proclaiming a famine, that is prophetic. Once again, i wouldn't want to put God in a box my friend and dismiss the clear revelation that Scripture has set forth.

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus Christ is coming soon! Is that not prophetic? Agabus proclaiming a famine, that is prophetic. Once again, i wouldn't want to put God in a box my friend and dismiss the clear revelation that Scripture has set forth.

Not in a box, but would not want to be any modern day prophet if the church applied same 100 % right standard as under the OT!

 

[JonShaff]

Not in a box, but would not want to be any modern day prophet if the church applied same 100 % right standard as under the OT!

Remember what Moses said when Joshua wanted to tell the men to stop prophesying after the Spirit of God fell on them? Moses said, "I would that all of God's people would be prophets."

Numbers 11:29

 

[Yeshua1]

Remember what Moses said when Joshua wanted to tell the men to stop prophesying after the Spirit of God fell on them? Moses said, "I would that all of God's people would be prophets."

Numbers 11:29

Even King saul could do that! Big difference between gift to prophesy, and to be in role and office of a prophet!

 

[JonShaff]

Even King saul could do that! Big difference between gift to prophesy, and to be in role and office of a prophet!

I agree
And Ephesians 4:11 doesn't call the prophet an office, but a gift to the Church. Just wanted to clarify--as office is given to Elder/Overseer.

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree
And Ephesians 4:11 doesn't call the prophet an office, but a gift to the Church. Just wanted to clarify--as office is given to Elder/Overseer.

I see prophets though as being the office of such, same way Apostle would be to that office!

 

[JonShaff]

I see prophets though as being the office of such, same way Apostle would be to that office!

What does the Bible teach? Ephesians 4:10-11 says they are gifts. 1 Cor. 12 says they are gifts. Literally, they are "Gifts of People" to the church.

 

[Yeshua1]

What does the Bible teach? Ephesians 4:10-11 says they are gifts. 1 Cor. 12 says they are gifts. Literally, they are "Gifts of People" to the church.

The Apostles and prophets that laid in our spiritual teach foundations were the OT prophets and the NT Apostles....

 

[JonShaff]

The Apostles and prophets that laid in our spiritual teach foundations were the OT prophets and the NT Apostles....

Incorrect...What do the Scriptures teach?

Ephesians 3
4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ;

5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.

 

[Yeshua1]

Incorrect...What do the Scriptures teach?

Ephesians 3
4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ;

5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.

Yes, to the Apostles of Christ, and to the OT Prophets, as peter described them having seen Jesus coming, but not in full!

 

[Reynolds]

They were not what we would call Apostles, more like apostles!

Define the difference using Scriptural support.

 

[JonShaff]

Yes, to the Apostles of Christ, and to the OT Prophets, as peter described them having seen Jesus coming, but not in full!

NT Prophets, it clearly says NT prophets.

Bro, do not let your preconceived ideas deter you from seeing what the Scriptures clearly teach.

 

[Yeshua1]

NT Prophets, it clearly says NT prophets.

Bro, do not let your preconceived ideas deter you from seeing what the Scriptures clearly teach.

I am not, as we do not need any prophets and Apostles anymore today, not operating in same sense/way as in the Bible!

 

[Yeshua1]

Define the difference using Scriptural support.

Barnabus was small a, Paul big A, as Paul was inspired to write romans, and barnabus was not!

 

[Steven Yeadon]

There is a difference between those who go out to spread the Gospel and "lead" individuals to Christ, and those whose mission is to go out and start a church where none exists. They are related, but having met people that do both, I sense a different set of skills and a different God given purpose. So setting semantics aside, there are domestic and overseas "church planters" as well as domestic and overseas "evangelists".

In short, no, Missionaries/apostles are not evangelists. They "Do the work of an evangelist" but they are distinct giftings.

And side note, those "circuit evangelists" that are in most American Church circles are not evangelists, they are prophets--calling God's people to a greater obedience to the New Covenant.

Paul claims to be the last apostle (1 Corinthians 15:7-9).

7Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8And last of all He appeared to me also, as to one of untimely birth. 9For I am the least of the apostles and am unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Apostles are not missionaries, what of most of the Twelve? They stayed in Jewish lands to administer the Jewish church. Apostles are the representatives of Jesus Christ (given the Greek meaning) and the founders of His church (Ephesians 2:20). Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles sent out to not just spread the Good News like Barnabas and others but found the Gentile church (Romans 15:6, Acts 9:5, Galatians 1-2).

Thus, all of that laid out, Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles, there is no other.

That missionaries are apostles is a modern construct. Missionaries are Evangelists of the Gospel, whether they go to new lands and plant churches or spread the Gospel to those in which churches are among them. This complexity just means Evangelist is a true multi-faceted office in the church like pastor/teacher.

Doesn't your teaching open up many problems? Apostles are first in the church we are told in 1 Corinthians 12:28.

And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

Why are missionaries and domestic church planters not more authoritative than local pastors in the global church? Why doesn't the bible expressly indicate that apostles are missionaries? Because it doesn't at any point I know of.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Barnabus was small a, Paul big A, as Paul was inspired to write romans, and barnabus was not!

My friend, please read my post #99 in this thread. I believe you are making stuff up that the bible does not expressly indicate. Remember the consequences of adding to scripture.