Or they're mature and not cage-stage Calvinists who insist on converting everyone they run across and think it's the be-all, end-all of Christian faith.
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How often do you encounter a C&A debate outside of the BB?
- Thread starter Reformed
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Or they're mature and not cage-stage Calvinists who insist on converting everyone they run across and think it's the be-all, end-all of Christian faith.
I can honestly say I have only once had a discussion on the topic except on the Baptist Board. A fellow came by the house to invite me to attend a new 1689 church in town.
I have not made my Augustinian leaning a secret, but it just doesn't come up very often. Usually when it does it's because I've mentioned it.
I have not made my Augustinian leaning a secret, but it just doesn't come up very often. Usually when it does it's because I've mentioned it.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
I have never heard Bible Teachings called, 'Calvinist' more than once.
I just said, "thou saith".
Anyway, if the question is about "God Picking some people", I always get very excited and tell them, "I've got the answer!!!"
Then, I turn and show them, Ephesians 1:5;
"having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"
I don't leave them with any room, other than to wonder on along.
....
Hating The God of The Bible is flesh, of course.
So many brag about hating The God of The Bible.
God is God.
The issue is whether a person has Love for The God of The Bible, or hate, not whether they can pretend their flesh-filled, Natual carnal hatred of The God of The Bible is going to be believed, because they pretend they are hating a man.
God doesn't buy that silliness.
Either a person LOVES THE GOD WHO SAID, "having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"
Or they exhibit that THAT GOD IS RIGHT, also, when Discribing their mind that is at emnity with Him.
I just said, "thou saith".
Anyway, if the question is about "God Picking some people", I always get very excited and tell them, "I've got the answer!!!"
Then, I turn and show them, Ephesians 1:5;
"having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"
I don't leave them with any room, other than to wonder on along.
....
Hating The God of The Bible is flesh, of course.
So many brag about hating The God of The Bible.
God is God.
The issue is whether a person has Love for The God of The Bible, or hate, not whether they can pretend their flesh-filled, Natual carnal hatred of The God of The Bible is going to be believed, because they pretend they are hating a man.
God doesn't buy that silliness.
Either a person LOVES THE GOD WHO SAID, "having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"
Or they exhibit that THAT GOD IS RIGHT, also, when Discribing their mind that is at emnity with Him.
Noah Hirsch
Active Member
I talk about Calvinism and the sovereignty of God vs. free will outside of this board. In Sunday school it gets brought up. In Tuesday men’s Bible study it gets brought up. In Wednesday study it gets brought up. We don’t necessarily talk about it every week, but we do talk about it. I talk about it different places. Those are just some of the places. It is not the only thing I talk about, but I do talk about it.
Actually not completely true. I meant Calvinist Baptist’s. I have met Presbyterians.
Our pastor discusses it often in Sunday School, Wednesday Night services, and even some on Sunday morning.
We're members of a Free Will Baptist Church Family, and the Church is obviously in a minority nowadays in believing you can lose your Salvation, so the topic comes up often. Some Church members even disagree with losing your Salvation, but their granddaddy founded that Church so they keep coming.
My wife and I are "moderate" 2 or 3 points. We generally don't agree with Irresistible Grace, Unconditional Election, or Limited Atonement. We tend to lean on the Prevenient Grace, Conditional Election and Unlimited Atonement side. However we do agree with Preservation of the Saints, and Total Depravity.
Our agreement with OSAS, puts us in the "Not Arminian" camp, yet our denial of Irresistible Grace, Unconditional election or Limited Atonement puts us in the "Not Calvinist" camp. I expect we are what you would call "Traditionalists", although we are close to 'Classical Arminians' too I suppose. We listen to both Calivinistic and Arminian teachers, and John Piper is our go-to for deep theological questions.
That said, I think Calvinists and Arminians are much closer than they like to believe. They've both got Chevy Silverados, and love the entire vehicle, but debate the ignition system, warranty and decision making of the driver.
We're members of a Free Will Baptist Church Family, and the Church is obviously in a minority nowadays in believing you can lose your Salvation, so the topic comes up often. Some Church members even disagree with losing your Salvation, but their granddaddy founded that Church so they keep coming.
My wife and I are "moderate" 2 or 3 points. We generally don't agree with Irresistible Grace, Unconditional Election, or Limited Atonement. We tend to lean on the Prevenient Grace, Conditional Election and Unlimited Atonement side. However we do agree with Preservation of the Saints, and Total Depravity.
Our agreement with OSAS, puts us in the "Not Arminian" camp, yet our denial of Irresistible Grace, Unconditional election or Limited Atonement puts us in the "Not Calvinist" camp. I expect we are what you would call "Traditionalists", although we are close to 'Classical Arminians' too I suppose. We listen to both Calivinistic and Arminian teachers, and John Piper is our go-to for deep theological questions.
That said, I think Calvinists and Arminians are much closer than they like to believe. They've both got Chevy Silverados, and love the entire vehicle, but debate the ignition system, warranty and decision making of the driver.
Noah Hirsch
Active Member
Do you think how much we talk about absolute predestination, God’s eternal decree, effectual calling, etc. outside of the board depends on how many Calvinists go to see church, or how Calvinistic leaning our church is with regard to numbers? How many of us who do not hear about the Doctrines of Grace have Calvinistic elders?
I'm not sure. I'm not reformed or particular or Calvinist by the way.
I know that starting out by introducing Christianity as God already having chosen those that will go to heaven and hell before the beginning of time will be a major turn off for most.
Start a sermon with "If you happen to be chosen by God since the beginning of time, please come by to see me Monday morning. If you think you might die before then, then don't worry you've likely already been chosen to burn in Hell and I don't want to get in God's way like Moses did."
Or meet someone and say "Did God select you for Heaven or Hell?" instead of "Have you heard of Jesus?"
I might have met a Calvinist Baptist because they may not have had the balls to speak up about it. Why do you think Churches are coming up with articles on how to detect if a potential preacher is a Calvinist?
For me, while growing up, Calvinism was always a cult. My calculus teacher mentioned how people were predestined to go to heaven and hell and I laughed. Then I realized she was serious and I laughed harder.
What I have learned is that most people who are "Calvinists" don't really know Calvinism. This is why they don't realize that its origins are not the Bible but Plotinus and the other pagans - literally the people Paul was writing against. Not a St. Augustine refused to believe in Christianity until someone suggested that he read the Bible in the spirit of Plotinus. And that started the ball rolling. The god-king Calvin, an ardent reader and scholar of the pagans, then cemented the idiocy across parts of Europe.
Calvinists have to remove large portions of the Bible they disagree with. Augustine did this. Calvin did this. In the end Calvinism is left with a pamphlet of Bible verses which they read again and again, and again, . . . . always out of context because they don't read the entire thing and refuse to study the history behind it.
That's what I've been able to tell from conversing with them online. As I said before, I don't know if I have ever met a Baptist Calvinist. I had to go look it up and read books on the subject like
What Is Reformed Theology?: Understanding the Basics
by R. C. Sproul | Sep 6, 2016
and basically learned everything I know about the subject in the past couple of years.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
All human beings are sinners against The God of The Universe and must all Justly be Punished in Hell, for their Eternal sins Against an Angry Trice Holy Eternal Creator God.
Adam fell.
I wouldn't use the same wording, but yes, I believe I agree with this.
Romans 3:23-26 NLT
For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. [24] Yet God, in his grace, freely makes us right in his sight. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. [25] For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, [26] for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he makes sinners right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
Romans 5:18-19 NLT
Yes, Adam’s one sin brings condemnation for everyone, but Christ’s one act of righteousness brings a right relationship with God and new life for everyone. [19] Because one person disobeyed God, many became sinners. But because one other person obeyed God, many will be made righteous.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
If this analogy were true, though I disagree that it is, Calvinists have the GMC Sierra
Particular
Well-Known Member
I prefer the Toyota Tacoma...[emoji16]If this analogy were true, though I disagree that it is, Calvinists have the GMC Sierra
Usually I try to interject small bits and pieces into local cell group, and also by question in the Sunday school.
I have noticed more members now having either esv SB or the Reformation SB now also!
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Your Eternal soul is entrusted to a revised paraphrase, masquerading as a 'translation'?
NLT "revised paraphrase."
"The revision has instead been presented to the public as a new "dynamic equivalence" version."
So the public can masquerade?
Pretend to be someone one is not.
The word, 'Translation', is used in THE TITLE of A REVISION of A PARAPHASE.
THAT COULDN'T BE MORE DECEITFUL.
That is the definition of religion.
Religion without God.
God Hates religion.
Religion put His Son to Death.
...
Bible Subject matter is Spiritual.
Roman's 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."
Roman 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."
....
IN Romans 5:19b, there are two words, in particular, included in that verse in the Spurious NL"T" that are also contained within a copy of God's Word accepted and used by God's children in His churches.
NL"T" Roman's 5:19b is,
"many will be made righteous".
KJV Roman's 5:19b is,
"many be made righteous."
The two words, in particular, that I wanted to emphasize that God Had Miraculiosly Preserved in the intentionally deceitful book, are, "many", and "made".
God Made many Hellbound human beings Righteous, by Choosing them from Eternity Past by The Pleasure of His Own Will,
... Having Jesus Christ to Agree to Suffer their Punishment, specifically,
... and The Holy Spirit Accomplishing Calling them by the Preaching of The Gospel,
... and Regenerating them, to Enable their sin-cursed soul to Repent of their personal sins
... and Gave them Faith to Believe in The Work of Jesus, as their Savior.
...
Any denial of that is what religion is all about.
Religions deny Jesus is The Savior.
Jesus The Savior Made many Saved, by The Activity of The Triune Godhead.
Particular
Well-Known Member
The people who translated the NLT.
Meet the Team – NLT
Meet the Team – NLT
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
In fairness to the NLT, the review you referenced was posted on the 1994 NLT which is VERY different from the 2004 NLT Revision.
No African Americans?
Particular
Well-Known Member
No women? No Latinos? No Kiwis?
Sorry, I am trying to gauge your post and whether you are being serious or being sarcastic.
If you're being serious, I would agree that there are excellent scholars whose skin pigmentation is something other than white. I have no idea how these folks were picked. I noticed a lot of Wheaton professors and Trinity professors so I wonder if this originated in the Chicago suburbs and others in a network were brought in.
Which African American scholars would you have recommended?
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Not in the Bible.
Genesis 1:26-28 NLT
Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.” [27] So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. [28] Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground.”
Revelation 22:3-5 NLT
No longer will there be a curse upon anything. For the throne of God and of the Lamb will be there, and his servants will worship him. [4] And they will see his face, and his name will be written on their foreheads. [5] And there will be no night there—no need for lamps or sun—for the Lord God will shine on them. And they will reign forever and ever.
He did not make humans for the purpose of being hellbound.
Not the wording I would use but I would agree with this.
Luke 22:41-44 NLT
He walked away, about a stone’s throw, and knelt down and prayed, [42] “Father, if you are willing, please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine.” [43] Then an angel from heaven appeared and strengthened him. [44] He prayed more fervently, and he was in such agony of spirit that his sweat fell to the ground like great drops of blood.
The grammar is too bad to follow here. Can you try again?
If the order of regeneration and repentance is important to you, I'll look this up. The order never mattered to be so, I'll review the Bible over it. And it seems like you trying to say that the Holy Spirit specifically does this, so I'll double-check that too.
Of course this is more of the same.
Basically, what you are saying with this is that anyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do is an evil religion and going to burn in hell.
But I will still look up the rest of it which I am not immediately able to answer.