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How old is mankind, let's see if we can get a rough date.

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MartyF

Well-Known Member
In asking, what do you base your doubts (ie, lack of "confidence") upon? Is it manuscripturally based, is it based upon secular historiography? is it based upon Lyellian geological theory, is it based upon darwinian ideology?, etc?

I base it on reading comprehension skills.

For instance, do you include in your question, the amount of persons that came out of Egypt with Moses, during the Exodus? Do you question the 1.5 + million that exited the nation? and if so, would you share based upon what criteria, that doubt is raised? Do you question the amount of persons that the Kingdom of David had therein?

How many soldiers did a Roman centurion command?

Would you mind sharing, based upon what evidences? Is it manuscripturally based, and if so, which specifically do you refer to, is it so-called 'lxx' based, and if so, which one/s, is it based upon higher criticism or other critical methods, an if so, which ones?

Besides the blatantly obvious ones such as 1 Kings 7:26, and 2 Chronicles 4:5? I thought about spending time on writing about the numbers in the Old Testament, but if I did a full rendition, I would start my own thread.

Do you believe in the historical accounts of Alexander III the Great, by Plutarch? How long after Alexander's death is the first available historical account/s, and how many copies are there, and do you have any doubts about its/their transmission?

I don't "believe in" historical accounts. That's silly loaded language. But the historical are filled with errors and are also written from a point of view and a purpose. This is where having developed reading comprehension skills is important.

One of the most famous examples is Atlantis. A transcription error made the island way too large. The only option available was to place it in the Atlantic. Hence, how a transcription error caused and entire myth to form.

If you doubt the "many numbers", "dates", & "numbers of people" as recorded in the scripture, which we have today, upon what basis, what criteria, what unerring foundation, do you come to say, "less than 10,000 years"?

I don't discount all historical value in the Old Testament. The oldest living tree I know of is is between 4,000-5,000 years old. So, I think flood should be somewhere around there. Some biologists claim older organisms but they determine the "age" of these older organisms by conjecture instead of something more reliable like tree rings. Pre-flood history is the more vague but I doubt it existed for much more than 5,000 years otherwise humans would have developed technology well past the Ark.
 
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MartyF

Well-Known Member
Is there any internal evidence that any of the writers (as above), or non-writers (as above) questioned any of the material (manuscripts and their contents, words) which they had available to them, since the time of Moses? For instance, did Daniel doubt the material of Jeremiah, or that of the other prophets before him (unto Moses)?

Would you also suggest that the angelic presence throughout the scriptures allowed not only errors to creep in, but also never gave instruction to correct if there had been such error in the texts available to those persons of the scripture (as noted already)? for instance, when Gabriel appeared to Daniel, did Gabriel make any mention about correcting this or that word, date, number, or when Gabriel appeared to others in scripture, same question? Did Jesus, in any of the NT, writing, make any mention of the scriptures then available (Gen to Mal), needing to be corrected by himself, the author of the words given before, through the agency of the Holy Ghost to the prophets, kings, etc? Is there any internal evidence that Jesus needed to correct a single portion of the word they then had? Same question would go for any of the Apostle writers, such as Peter, John, or Paul.

When Jesus said, that his words word not pass away, in the NT, do you consider that Jesus was the one speaking and inspiring (by/through the Holy Ghost) in all of the OT, or do you not agree to that?

Lots of questions.

Maybe you can start with this

 

Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
I base it on reading comprehension skills.
So, by so saying, you base it upon your own effort and mental capacity rather than upon God's word. Very dangerous.

How many soldiers did a Roman centurion command?
I will answer you, if you answer my question correctly, What color is my shirt? Tell me please, be specific in your answer. Thank you. it is not that difficult of a question. Yes, I am most serious.

Besides the blatantly obvious ones such as 1 Kings 7:26, and 2 Chronicles 4:5?
You think, 1 Kings 7:26 and 2 Chronicles 4:5 are in contradiction?

You do not seem to actually believe what God stated about His word then, John 10:35. God's word cannot be broken, and there are 0 contradictions in scripture. I have never seen one, in all the years of skepticism trying (and they sure do try, even unto the clinically hysterically sad).

You stated, "I base it on reading comprehension skills.", then either one of two things has happened:

[1] you either read a corrupt modern translation which absolutely butchered the two places, or

[2] your reading comprehension skills were put into play without asking God for direction, meaning you used fallen human logic, and didn't understand what you read.

Allow me to show you:

1Ki 7:26 And it was an hand breadth thick, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies: it contained two thousand baths.

2Ch 4:5 And the thickness of it was an handbreadth, and the brim of it like the work of the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies; and it received and held three thousand baths.

The two are speaking about differing things. If your reading comprehension skills were anything close to accurate you should be able to carefully read, asking God in prayer first upon your knees in submission to God's wisdom (rather than your own foolishness, ignorance (not knowing), pride of intellect, and skepticism) and ask Him for understanding you would have had it and not been so careless.

There is a complete difference in:

[1] 1 Ki 7:26, in that the 'sea' then, not in its fullness of capacity, 'contained two thousand baths'

[2] 2 Chr 4:5, in that the fullness of the capacity was that it "received and held three thousand baths".

1 Ki 7:26 refers to time when it was 2/3's full. 2 Chr refers to a time, when it was all the way full. You can think of it as two snapshots of a bathtub at two moments of time. One with not full, and the other with full. Are they contradictory? No. Please, do yourself a favour (really), stop reading men's commentaries which are filled with skepticism. Read God's word, and ask Him for the answer to your concerns. This so-called 'contradiction' is nothing of the sort.

I am also going to recommend a book by Peter S Ruckman (though there are some things I disagree with in it, it is still a useful resource tool), The "ERRORS" of the King James Bible (PDF).

It is the same as Matthew, Mark and Luke's gospel of the possessed in the tombs. Matthew shows two men, and Mark and Luke speak of one of those two men. They are not in contradiction, but in harmony when all is laid out together.

I thought about spending time on writing about the numbers in the Old Testament, but if I did a full rendition, I would start my own thread.
It would be a waste of time. You have already been answered hundreds of times, in as many places by those who actually believe their Bible (KJB).

I don't "believe in" historical accounts.
Really? You have no 'belief' in an event that is simply recorded 400 yearish after the event (Alexander III death, etc by Plutarch) and no present witness, of either yourself, or another directly to that event? Tell me another lie ...

That's silly loaded language.
Not at all. Belief is required in the historical, and most especially to any event that you were not directly present for. Your statement is silly.

But the historical are filled with errors
The preserved word of God in English (KJB) has no errors in its words, as it so says, and is proven by itself having no errors. The word of the LORD is pure.

and are also written from a point of view and a purpose.
The Holy Ghost inspired every single word of the preserved word of God. You charge God with error. Beware, you are on very dangerous ground, for it is the same charge Lucifer gave, and the same charge the pharisees gave against Jesus.

This is where having developed reading comprehension skills is important.
If your present ability is any demonstration of the fullness of such 'skills', you would do better to cast all the nonsense aside and go to God upon your knees asking for true wisdom and knowledge. Paul did.

One of the most famous examples is Atlantis. A transcription error made the island way too large. The only option available was to place it in the Atlantic. Hence, how a transcription error caused and entire myth to form.
O man ... (you know all those meme's where there is a palm to the face?) This is that point of entry, however, I will spare us all from posting it.

I don't discount all historical value in the Old Testament.
Cute.

The oldest living tree I know of is is between 4,000-5,000 years old.
Based upon? Carbon, tree-ring, other? You trust that, but distrust the plain preserved words themselves? You do realize that in tree ring dating, that multiple rings per year occur, and sets of rings depending upon the climate, conditions, etc? Not exactly an exact science.

So, I think
You mean you 'believe' based upon your standard rather than what God said.

flood should be somewhere around there. Some biologists claim older organisms
And some biologists claim 'aliens'. Mixed bag - 'biologists'.

but they determine the "age" of these older organisms by conjecture
You just told me 'I think'. That is conjecture based upon what you believe to be true. You are in the same boat as they are. you need to give up that position, and consider the real position. God cannot lie.

instead of something more reliable like tree rings. Pre-flood history is the more vague
Only if you disbelieve the Bible and come at it with skepticism, otherwise God told us plainly what happened, and not merely in the OT (and not just in Genesis, but in Psalms, Job, etc), but also in the NT.

but I doubt it
Yes, you do seem to have a lot of that, and all of it based upon what 'you' think, based upon what you set as standard of criteria.

existed for much more than 5,000 years otherwise humans would have developed technology well past the Ark.
The Ark was just a giant barge. They did not need the things we use today. They had a much better memory capacity, near perfect minds, not degraded by all the thousands of years of genetic load. I will recommend a book - Link

Read it along with the Bible, prayerfully.
 
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Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
Lots of questions.
And truly, you gave no answers. Just avoided everything I asked.

Maybe you can start with this
If you cannot even personally take the time to answer my questions, why on earth would I spend time with a person on a video, who also will not respond to my questions?

I have heard all of the Jesuit (humanism, humanistic) nonsense before, and yes, what is in that video is their theology, make no mistake. Completely disregards God.
 
Can you guys knock it off and answer the OP in a sentence or two? :D

No scripture wars needed, just give your opinion and call it done.

My opinion is that the scriptures are not a history book of the creation and of mankind, and there are approximately 12,159,002,348 details that are not in the Holy Book.

Was "Adam" (aka "man" in Hebrew) a literal person or is that term figurative for creation of mankind?

If the "first family" of Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel was literal, then how did Cain leave for Nod and find a wife?

Reading the equivalent of Yahoo! news version of God's creation and trying to extrapolate details not in the text is a fun, if not outright silly, endeavor.
 
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You are no christian.

Last I checked this is a discussion forum, pardner.

I am not a Christian simply because I don't read Genesis as an exhaustive history of mankind? Please.

The term "Christian" means "follower of Christ." It is rather boorish of you to declare that I am not, simply because I interpret Genesis as a general summary of the events of creation.
 
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Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Indeed. No need to not call the enemy of souls by anything other than what he is. The enemy on the field is identified, and he is the most subtil beast of the field, but the scripture identifies him plainly and so he is called out.
 
Indeed. No need to not call the enemy of souls by anything other than what he is. The enemy on the field is identified, and he is the most subtil beast of the field, but the scripture identifies him plainly and so he is called out.

The ignore feature is a wonderful invention. Good day.
 

Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
...The term "Christian" means "follower of Christ." It is rather boorish of you to declare that I am no ...
Yes, a Christian is a follower of Jesus the Christ:

Mat_19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Mar_10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Mat_23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Luk_11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

Deny Abel as a person, you deny Zacharias as a person. The equation is simple.

Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

...

Luk_3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Rom_5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1Co_15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Deny the first, and you deny the second. The equation is simple.
 

Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
Can you guys knock it off and answer the OP in a sentence or two? :D
You can begin with the answer here - Link 1 and continue reading unto Link 2
or, you can simply get the whole thing here - Link 3

No scripture wars needed
The only true answer is found in scripture. John 17:17. To all who deny this, rely on something else, and always get the wrong answer.

just give your opinion and call it done.
That would be 'private interpretation' which we are warned against. Thus was the OP given: "There are several ways to correlate data, first we can use the scriptural ages, given from Genesis, in the genealogies, ages of kings, etc, and combine with known dates in history, such as the 7th year of Artaxerxes I Longimanus/Machrocheir, being in the Fall of 457 BC (by astronomical sources, Ptolemy's Canon, Elephantine Papyri, - Artaxerxes I of Persia - Wikipedia"

My opinion is that
Not interested in that. Thank you. In the name of Jesus Christ, you may leave now.

the scriptures are not a history book of the creation and of mankind
I do not know why you claim to be called 'ChurchofChristGuy' when your statement is a fundamental denial of Christ, his word and his church. It makes you a hypocrite and actually ignorant of the material of scripture.

Wasted time.

Was "Adam" (aka "man" in Hebrew) a literal person or is that term figurative for creation of mankind?
If the following is not clear to you, then you have a greater problem than your "question":

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The equation is simple. Deny Adam as a person, you deny Jesus (the Lord from Heaven) as a person.

If the "first family" of Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel was literal, then how did Cain leave for Nod and find a wife?
Skepticism at its most foolish.

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

"Nod" means wandering. Nomadic, which was the wilderness beyond the gates of Eden (hence 'east of Eden').

Genesis 4:16-17, is not in a single moment in time. It is progressive in time, summing up the life of Cain. Genesis 5 expands upon that time. Cain married a daughter of Adam, after she was born and grew and left.

You have the "Iffffffff....." of the serpent.

Reading the equivalent of Yahoo! news version of God's creation and trying to extrapolate details not in the text is a fun, if not outright silly, endeavor.
You are no christian.
 

Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
EvilMerodach [son of Nebuchadnezzar II; aka "Amel-Marduk"] - Reigned 562 BC – 560 BC (AM 3666 – AM 3668); see 2 Kings 25:7; Jeremiah 52:31

He is killed by brother-in-law, Nergalsharezer/Neriglissar
A typographical error in citation listing found.

"2 Kings 25:7" should read "2 Kings 25:27".

Acts 7:6 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.
Another typographical error is found.

"Acts 7:6 And the nation ...", should read "Acts 7:7 And the nation ..."

Thank you for pointing out any other minor typographical issues. These have been updated on the main study.
 

MartyF

Well-Known Member
Can you guys knock it off and answer the OP in a sentence or two? :D

Who are you talking to?

Last I checked this is a discussion forum, pardner.

I am not a Christian simply because I don't read Genesis as an exhaustive history of mankind? Please.

The term "Christian" means "follower of Christ." It is rather boorish of you to declare that I am not, simply because I interpret Genesis as a general summary of the events of creation.

Can you guys knock it off and answer the OP in a sentence or two? :D
 

Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
OK here is one sentence: 3,774,393 years old. :D
Based upon Lyellian made-it-up-outta-thin-air-uniformitarian-geology? Based upon Darwinian pseudo-science? Based upon conflicting-uncalibrated-radio-metric-dating-theory? Based upon Lamarckian-jesuitically-trained-skull-duggery? Based upon Pierre-Teilhard-de-Chardinian-jesuitical-pilt-downian-and-other-hoaxes? Based upon Georges-le-Maitrian-jesuitically-inspired-big-bangism? (One can actually trace Jesuit influence through all of it, even Darwin) Seriously, based upon what?




You do know about the soft tissue, blood cells, even DNA, being found all over the world in dinosaur bones, yes?


You do know that the Ark of Noah is found right?

 

Oseas3

Well-Known Member
Which, "all the days that Adam lived" would include his time in the garden of Eden,

No, the days of Adam are not included his time in the garden of Eden. There was a countless population in the garden of Eden ruled by a Cherub. The age of Adam begins after the rebellion in Eden, then appeared the animal man called Adam by God, and the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden and he lived 930 years.

1 Corinthians 15:v.45-49 -
The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

From Adam to JESUS it was around 4,000 years. From JESUS to our days, it is around 2000 years or 2019 years according Christian calendar. From Adam to the present time, some more than 6000 years. I would say we entered in the first century of this seventh and last millennium, the millennium of Christ, or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day.
 
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