How to defeat the EIREITAD heresy!

But it does have bearing on his sin. It was not a random act of chastening. You said this before:

Since we all agree that Christ paid 'the penalty' for our sins, why can't we narrow down what that penalty was? You admit that this payment did not cover chastening in this life. I believe David's sins were covered by the blood just like yours and mine, but nevertheless David reaped what he sowed with Bathsheba in the form of the death of his child. Call it whatever you wan't, that ought to cause a man to fear God and to desire to get the sin out of his life!

The kingdom was Saul's before he lost it. We could have been saying Christ the son of Saul if he had repented of his sins. The foreknowledge of God doesn't change the responsibility of man. But I don't believe Saul is even a picture of an unsaved man. Saul is a picture of a saved man who falls out of fellowship and loses the kingdom.

 

Now, this proves that you are being intentionally dishonest.

Entering the Kingdom is not the same thing as being born from above.

Here, I'll type it again and make it bigger so you can see it:

Entering the Kingdom is not the same thing as being born from above.

What must I do to be saved?

Believe on the Lord Jesus. Plus nothing! (There, is that big enough for you to see it?)

Being born from above is based on nothing more than than the finished work of Jesus on the cross.

Entering the Kingdom, which is not the same thing as being born from above and is not guaranteed to every saved individual, is based on a lifetime of obedience.

Please stop lieing. If you want to argue that entering the Kingdom is the same thing as being born from above, please feel free to do so. But, just because you equate the two, substituting my words into your theology is intellectually dishonest. It's a lie.

 

This is not a strawmn. You were talking about the new birth, quoting passages from John 3:1-10. I was the first one to do so. You even corrected me when I misquoted a verse.

But you have taken this verse:
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

And you have staed that according to this verse "that one must "DO SOMETHING" to be born again. I consider that heresy. Salvation is by grace through faith. Care to explain yourself.

 

Since Goshen was South of the River Egypt and the Great River Euphrates, the Israelites were not in the Promised Land.

 

The new birth is speaking of salvation. One must enter heaven before he enter into the kingdom. The conclusion is down in verse 16. I hope you can quote that verse. The kingdom (though the word is used here for the sake of Nicodemus) becomes quite irrelevant.
Consider:
Luke 23:42-43 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
--Just because the Jews expected the kingdom didn't mean they were going to get it. Jesus spoke directly to the thief and told him that he would be in paradise, not the kingdom. One must enter heaven before the kingdom. Nicodemus by being born again would enter heaven. The kingdom was a long way off, and still is a long way off.
Here, I'll type it again and make it bigger so you can see it:

Entering the Kingdom is not the same thing as being born from above. [/quote] Good then don't equate the two. Being born again equals salvation, not entering the kingdom. Why did you then say you have to "do something"?

That is not what you wrote. you said "you must 'do something'"

Then why did you say "you must do something?"

That is your opinion not based on Scripture. If I am born again, I am born again by faith alone; faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Born again equals salvation. It has nothing to do with the kingdom except in the fact that one must have salvation and enter into heaven before he can ever reach heaven. Jesus used the term to relate to a Jew--Nicodemus.

It is not a lie to say that you believe you must do something to be born again. That is what you said. The new birth is the very essence of salvation. It always has been until Zane, Hodges, Dillon, and Faust recently came along and perverted the gospel message. Just because you believe in another gospel doesn't mean that the true gospel of Jesus Christ has changed. I have not changed the gospel message of salvation (i.e. being born again). You have. And you have put the requirement of works in their (just lke Catholics do) in order to obtain salvation (the new birth). So the gospel message has changed with you, not me.

 

I have equated doing something with entering the Kingdom, not with being born from above. If you equate the two, then state so, but don't lie about what I said. Why is that difficult to do?

 

The parrallel is still there. Faust and others who believe this theology draw heavily on parables and allegories for their doctrine. That is why they are way out in left field. So if you are going to allegorize the Bible you must be consistent in the allegory. John 3:5 is still being used. It is the verse being used as an allegory to fit the OT story of the Jews entering into the Promised Land. The staement is still made (with reference to 3:5) "they had to do something." Whether they had to do something to enter the Promised Land, or whether they have to do something to be born again, the verse and the allegorical teaching must remain consistent. The statement and the teaching remain the same. The fact remains: "They had to do something" (to be born again). Not to just enter the kingdom but to be born again. I realize what he said, and I believe he does too.

 

You might want to take a look at some maps, as it was within the area boundaried by the mouths of the Nile.

Here are 2 maps: One of where Goshen is located, then one broader one that shows the land from the Nile to the Euphrates. They're in pdf format, so you can right click and save them.

Goshen

Middle East

 

Then it should be easy to quote me if I said it.

Otherwise, you sir are a liar because there is now no doubt that you are intentionally doing it!

If I said, quote it.

 

That sir, is works salvation!

 

Why don't you simply quote where I made this statement?

 

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

You don't have to do any works to receive this gift. But being raised up on the last day is not entering the kingdom.

 

HoG is playing cat and mouse with you DHK. Very Dangerous.

 

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1068952&postcount=206

 

No, it is the rapture (which even Faust believes), and in that day he will enter into heaven. He must enter into heaven before he enters the kingdom. He must stand before the JSOC before he enters into the Kingdom. There are certain things that must occur first before the kingdom happens.

 

Then we which are alive and remain in Him shall be caught up together with them in the clouds. So shall we ever be with the Lord.

We will ever be with the Lord. Not cast into outer darkness, nor hell, nor the lake of fire.

We will be with the Lord. If He is in a Kingdom on this earth, we will be there with Him.

The foolishness of saying one of God's own is cast into outer darkness is utter nonsense and not of God.

 

Excuse me? I guess I need to start another thread.

 

Ths JSOC is in heaven. It is described as a heavenly scene where Christ is the judge. There is a good description of it in 1Cor.3:11-15.
Having said that, according to Kingdom Theology your future fate will be decided at that time. You will either:
1. Enter into the Kingdom.
2. Suffer 1000 years of torment (purgatory).
3. Be consigned to endure through the tribulation and hope to come through after the seven years alive and then enter into the Kingdom.

Obviously it has to be before the tribulation.