How to defeat the EIREITAD heresy!

[DHK]

Thus, even if Kingdom Accountability wasn't Biblically obvious, if I was going to err, I'd err on the side that encourages people to stop sinning. Thus, while I may be ashamed about things in my life at the judgment seat, I strongly doubt preaching the Kingdom of God will be one of them.

The Koran, if properly followed, encourages people to stop sinning. Wny not just become a Muslim. They have a paradise too.

 

[J. Jump]

The Koran, if properly followed, encourages people to stop sinning. Wny not just become a Muslim. They have a paradise too.

Arguing from absurdity does not a refute make! I think we all know the answer to such a silly question of why not just become a Muslim!

 

[DHK]

Arguing from absurdity does not a refute make! I think we all know the answer to such a silly question of why not just become a Muslim!

Then the reason given for believing in ME is just as absurd, for it certainly isn't Biblical.

 

[James_Newman]

James -- ONE salvation, 3 STEPS.

JUSTIFICATION -- Accepting God's eternal forgiveness of sins in Christ.

SANCTIFICATION -- Growing daily in the "Christ life."

GLORIFICATION -- Being changed into a body like unto Christ's glorified body.

Now many works-based religions try to make 3 out of one but they haven't figure out how they'll glorify themselves yet! :laugh:

skypair

You forgot step 4:
Acts 27:31
Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.

 

[J. Jump]

Then the reason given for believing in ME is just as absurd, for it certainly isn't Biblical.

In your opinion that may be true, but in all the conversations that we have had you have never been able to show otherwise.

 

[DHK]

In your opinion that may be true, but in all the conversations that we have had you have never been able to show otherwise.

Here is the motive Paul gave for serving Christ:

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

Rufus gave a motive of fear, just like the Catholic Church does. The RCC works on the basis of fear. It is a religion of fear. Purgatory is based on fear. If you say 53 Hail Mary's a day (the no. on a rosary) then you wil lessen the time spent in Purgatory. If you give money to the RCC, you will lessen the time spent in purgatory. If you give alms to the poor you will lessen the time spent in purgatory. This is a relgion of works based on fear. The fear is: if I don't keep all these requirements my length of time in Purgatory will be very great.

Those who believe in ME work on the same basis. If you don't endure to the end you will spend time outside of the kingsom. If your works aren't good enough to meet the apporval of the Savior you will spend 1000 years of torment during the MK. Not only will you lose reward you will gain the punishment of a Hell-like purgatory during the MK. Your works on this earth must be perseverence to the end. How much works; what quality of works; we still don't know. It is up to Christ at the JSOC. There is no assurance now for anyone that they will enter into the Kingdom. We must serve in fear of ME.

It is totally unbiblical, for Christ's emphasis was on serving the Lord in love. Paul's emphasis was on love; likewise John's. "For the love of Christ constrains me."

 

[J. Jump]

Paul's emphasis was on love

Certainly we should get to a point where we are serving out of love, but how many years does it take children to do what they parents ask them to do because they love them and don't fear the consequences?

My son is four and he still doesn't do what I ask him to do because he loves me. I'm not sure that at four years old he really and truly understands that concept yet.

But to say that we go from being spiritually dead to serving out of love in the twinkling of an eye is not very Scriptural.

Here's just an example of Paul disagree with even what you have said of him:

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

 

[npetreley]

Here is the motive Paul gave for serving Christ:

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

Rufus gave a motive of fear, just like the Catholic Church does.

Exactly. And what does the Bible say about this?

Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

The MEers want to put Christians back in bondage again to fear. Don't let them get away with it. Our motivation is the love of Christ, as is said above in 2Cor, and also in 1 John.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

God's love does just fine without you fear-mongers.

 

[J. Jump]

God's love does just fine without you fear-mongers.

A motivation to serve out of love obviously does not work for all as one need just read this board for a few days and see that mistake. And I'll leave it at that.

 

[DHK]

A motivation to serve out of love obviously does not work for all as one need just read this board for a few days and see that mistake. And I'll leave it at that.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If it is not out of love then perhaps you have the wrong religion. Then again I don't have a religion; I have a relationship.

 

[J. Jump]

If it is not out of love then perhaps you have the wrong religion. Then again I don't have a religion; I have a relationship.

Once again proving my point . . . there are a number of people that have a "relationship" on this board but it doesn't impact their behavior in the slightest.

 

[Amy.G]

Once again proving my point . . . there are a number of people that have a "relationship" on this board but it doesn't impact their behavior in the slightest.

You have not proved your point about anything yet.

 

[npetreley]

You have not proved your point about anything yet.

LOL! But now you know to expect that response, right? After all, once they are totally defeated, the only response left it, "Precisely! You proved my point!"

 

[Amy.G]

LOL! But now you know to expect that response, right? After all, once they are totally defeated, the only response left it, "Precisely! You proved my point!"

They are extremely predictable. I think they must have taken some sort of marketing course. Maybe they were all in the same class.:laugh:

 

[Lacy Evans]

If it is not out of love then perhaps you have the wrong religion. Then again I don't have a religion; I have a relationship.

If it's not out of love and fear then perhaps you are ignoring half of the Bible.

2Co 5:9-11
9. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.


Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

 

[J. Jump]

You have not proved your point about anything yet.

Why am I not surprised that "you" don't understand that statement. :tear:

 

[J. Jump]

They are extremely predictable. I think they must have taken some sort of marketing course. Maybe they were all in the same class.

Let me make my point a bit more obvious for you Amy. You have absolutely no problem misrepresenting what we say. You have no problem lying about what we say and or what we believe or don't believe. You don't have any problems making fun of us. Or laughing with others that do the same.

None of which is Christ-like in action yet you say you serve out of love and that you have a relationship with Christ, yet this love and this relationship has not caused you to act in a more Christ-like manner towards fellow "saved" individuals.

Now do you want to say that your actions are excusable because we aren't saved? And if so then can you tell me where it is okay to speak evil of someone just because they aren't saved?

 

[DHK]

Now do you want to say that your actions are excusable because we aren't saved? And if so then can you tell me where it is okay to speak evil of someone just because they aren't saved?

Do you say the same thing about Jude when he exposed false doctrine and those who spread it:

Jude 1:12-13 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

 

[J. Jump]

Do you say the same thing about Jude when he exposed false doctrine and those who spread it:

Jude 1:12-13 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

So you want to equate lying and misrepresentation and deliberate poking fun at someone on the same level as inspired writings? Come on now.

 

[DHK]

So you want to equate lying and misrepresentation and deliberate poking fun at someone on the same level as inspired writings? Come on now.

No, what I am saying that error needs to be exposed. Sometimes it the truth hurts. Personally I try (am not always successful), but try, to attack the position, and not the person. If I consider ME as aberrant doctrine I will fight it tooth and nail. That will not affect my relationship with Christ. It was Jude that said that we should earnestly contend for the faith.