• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

How to Improve Our English Translations of Scripture

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I believe all modern translations have all utter failed to faithfully translate the Bible because they translate the same Greek word into many English words, obliterating the actual message of scripture.

I make this charge not based on any expertise, I do not even understand basic Greek grammar. I simply look at my Exhaustive Concordance, which tells me how each Greek word is translated, and I see the same word being translated into dozens of English words, but it appears to me that only a few, usually 4 or less, could be used.

So my first question is why are not the translations more concordant? My only guess is it may be the result of “pre computer” editing, or lack thereof. I think those who know how to translate should whittle down the variations, because I believe a very different and easily understood Bible would emerge.

Lets take the Greek preposition “ek” which means “out of”, “from” or “away from”, and “by”. It is used to show the point of origin of an action (place, time or cause.) Thus the English word “of” means much the same thing.

Apparently the word appears over 900 times in the NT text, the TR or MT or CT. Lets look at a few of them and see if we can substitute one of the following: (1) of: (2) out of: (3) from: (4) since, and (5) away from.

Matthew 7:9 reads (NASB95) “ Or what man is there among you who when his son asks for a loaf will give him a stone.” Why not a more literal translation which would read,

“Or what man is of you whom his son will ask for a loaf, he will not give him a stone will he?” Note the change from “among” to “of” which shifts the meaning. Among points to physical location, one of the group of men standing there, whereas “of” points to type of man based on location.

Why not translate “ek” as “among?” Because another preposition, “en” means in and therefore means among.

One more example: Luke 11:13, which reads (NASB95) If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

But “your” is not in the text and so a more literal translation would be “…more the Father of heaven will give….” And again “heavenly” is an attribute of behavior, or can be understood that way, whereas the Father of heaven clearly designates the entity in view.

In summary, I believe the translators of old, mistakenly have taken a shotgun to the text. And modern day translators, with our computer sort and search capacity, can and should fix them as soon as possible.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
I believe all modern translations have all utter failed to faithfully translate the Bible because they translate the same Greek word into many English words, obliterating the actual message of scripture.

I make this charge not based on any expertise, I do not even understand basic Greek grammar. I simply look at my Exhaustive Concordance, which tells me how each Greek word is translated, and I see the same word being translated into dozens of English words, but it appears to me that only a few, usually 4 or less, could be used.

So my first question is why are not the translations more concordant? My only guess is it may be the result of “pre computer” editing, or lack thereof. I think those who know how to translate should whittle down the variations, because I believe a very different and easily understood Bible would emerge.

Lets take the Greek preposition “ek” which means “out of”, “from” or “away from”, and “by”. It is used to show the point of origin of an action (place, time or cause.) Thus the English word “of” means much the same thing.

Apparently the word appears over 900 times in the NT text, the TR or MT or CT. Lets look at a few of them and see if we can substitute one of the following: (1) of: (2) out of: (3) from: (4) since, and (5) away from.

Matthew 7:9 reads (NASB95) “ Or what man is there among you who when his son asks for a loaf will give him a stone.” Why not a more literal translation which would read,

“Or what man is of you whom his son will ask for a loaf, he will not give him a stone will he?” Note the change from “among” to “of” which shifts the meaning. Among points to physical location, one of the group of men standing there, whereas “of” points to type of man based on location.

Why not translate “ek” as “among?” Because another preposition, “en” means in and therefore means among.

One more example: Luke 11:13, which reads (NASB95) If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

But “your” is not in the text and so a more literal translation would be “…more the Father of heaven will give….” And again “heavenly” is an attribute of behavior, or can be understood that way, whereas the Father of heaven clearly designates the entity in view.

In summary, I believe the translators of old, mistakenly have taken a shotgun to the text. And modern day translators, with our computer sort and search capacity, can and should fix them as soon as possible.
Its much more complicated, as must use context, genre, greek construction, grammar etc
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
I believe all modern translations have all utter failed to faithfully translate the Bible because they translate the same Greek word into many English words, obliterating the actual message of scripture.

I make this charge not based on any expertise, I do not even understand basic Greek grammar. I simply look at my Exhaustive Concordance, which tells me how each Greek word is translated, and I see the same word being translated into dozens of English words, but it appears to me that only a few, usually 4 or less, could be used.

So my first question is why are not the translations more concordant? My only guess is it may be the result of “pre computer” editing, or lack thereof. I think those who know how to translate should whittle down the variations, because I believe a very different and easily understood Bible would emerge.

Lets take the Greek preposition “ek” which means “out of”, “from” or “away from”, and “by”. It is used to show the point of origin of an action (place, time or cause.) Thus the English word “of” means much the same thing.

Apparently the word appears over 900 times in the NT text, the TR or MT or CT. Lets look at a few of them and see if we can substitute one of the following: (1) of: (2) out of: (3) from: (4) since, and (5) away from.

Matthew 7:9 reads (NASB95) “ Or what man is there among you who when his son asks for a loaf will give him a stone.” Why not a more literal translation which would read,

“Or what man is of you whom his son will ask for a loaf, he will not give him a stone will he?” Note the change from “among” to “of” which shifts the meaning. Among points to physical location, one of the group of men standing there, whereas “of” points to type of man based on location.

Why not translate “ek” as “among?” Because another preposition, “en” means in and therefore means among.

One more example: Luke 11:13, which reads (NASB95) If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

But “your” is not in the text and so a more literal translation would be “…more the Father of heaven will give….” And again “heavenly” is an attribute of behavior, or can be understood that way, whereas the Father of heaven clearly designates the entity in view.

In summary, I believe the translators of old, mistakenly have taken a shotgun to the text. And modern day translators, with our computer sort and search capacity, can and should fix them as soon as possible.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
I believe all modern translations have all utter failed to faithfully translate the Bible because they translate the same Greek word into many English words, obliterating the actual message of scripture.

I make this charge not based on any expertise, I do not even understand basic Greek grammar. I simply look at my Exhaustive Concordance, which tells me how each Greek word is translated, and I see the same word being translated into dozens of English words, but it appears to me that only a few, usually 4 or less, could be used.

So my first question is why are not the translations more concordant? My only guess is it may be the result of “pre computer” editing, or lack thereof. I think those who know how to translate should whittle down the variations, because I believe a very different and easily understood Bible would emerge.

Lets take the Greek preposition “ek” which means “out of”, “from” or “away from”, and “by”. It is used to show the point of origin of an action (place, time or cause.) Thus the English word “of” means much the same thing.

Apparently the word appears over 900 times in the NT text, the TR or MT or CT. Lets look at a few of them and see if we can substitute one of the following: (1) of: (2) out of: (3) from: (4) since, and (5) away from.

Matthew 7:9 reads (NASB95) “ Or what man is there among you who when his son asks for a loaf will give him a stone.” Why not a more literal translation which would read,

“Or what man is of you whom his son will ask for a loaf, he will not give him a stone will he?” Note the change from “among” to “of” which shifts the meaning. Among points to physical location, one of the group of men standing there, whereas “of” points to type of man based on location.

Why not translate “ek” as “among?” Because another preposition, “en” means in and therefore means among.

One more example: Luke 11:13, which reads (NASB95) If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

But “your” is not in the text and so a more literal translation would be “…more the Father of heaven will give….” And again “heavenly” is an attribute of behavior, or can be understood that way, whereas the Father of heaven clearly designates the entity in view.

In summary, I believe the translators of old, mistakenly have taken a shotgun to the text. And modern day translators, with our computer sort and search capacity, can and should fix them as soon as possible.

What possesses man to rewrite the Scripture according to another text when the Lord has given us what He wanted us to have 400 years ago shortly after the Reformers put us back on track?
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
What possesses man to rewrite the Scripture according to another text when the Lord has given us what He wanted us to have 400 years ago shortly after the Reformers put us back on track?

I can tell you wht this ol' dog thinks.

All these modern versions have placed doubt on the the Word of God, not only among believers but also to the lost of this world.

Everyone can find fault in it and have recomendations to correct it.

This will come down to individual accountabilty at the Bema Seat. It's not about salvation, it's about loss of rewards in faithfulness in what God has provided.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Translating by concordance is only feasible when the semantic unit is not polysemous.
Did you define "translating by concordance" or link to a definition? Nope

Did I say we should "translate by concordance?" Nope

Why not contribute rather than sabotage?


In summary, I believe the translators of old, mistakenly have taken a shotgun to the text. And modern day translators, with our computer sort and search capacity, can and should fix them as soon as possible.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What possesses man to rewrite the Scripture according to another text when the Lord has given us what He wanted us to have 400 years ago shortly after the Reformers put us back on track?
Our scriptures were written about 2000 years or more ago, not 400 years ago. The KJV is NOT inspired.

If you actually believe that nonsense, open you own thread. This one is about improving our English Translations.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Did you define "translating by concordance" or link to a definition? Nope

Did I say we should "translate by concordance?" Nope
Forgive me. From your OP I thought you knew what it was. No offense is intended, but Brother, if you're going to pontificate about Bible translation, perhaps it would be good to know the terminology.

I see no need to contribute more here, since you apparently don't understand the proper terminology. You are as intractable as ever.

God bless.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Forgive me. From your OP I thought you knew what it was. No offense is intended, but Brother, if you're going to pontificate about Bible translation, perhaps it would be good to know the terminology.

I see no need to contribute more here, since you apparently don't understand the proper terminology. You are as intractable as ever.

God bless.
Thanks and God bless.

To repeat my actual question:

So my first question is why are not the translations more concordant?
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So my first question is why are not the translations more concordant?

Answer from the OP, they were written before we had computer sort and analysis technology.
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
So my first question is why are not the translations more concordant?

Answer from the OP, they were written before we had computer sort and analysis technology.
You wish all the many different Bible versions were more similar to each other?

Bible translation differences stem from variations in ancient manuscripts, differing translation philosophies (literal vs. cultural vs. thought-for-thought), and the evolving nature of the English language. Translators must interpret complex Hebrew and Greek, balancing accuracy with readability, while new manuscript discoveries also lead to updated, varying texts.

Ancient languages lack punctuation and have grammatical structures that do not map directly to English, requiring translators to act as interpreters.

As modern English changes, new translations are created to ensure the text remains understandable to contemporary readers.

Multiple translations help to provide a more complete understanding of the original text, as no single translation can perfectly capture every nuance or idiom of the original language.

When there is such disagreement or uncertainty, the best translations of the Bible will acknowledge that in a footnote, making the reader aware of other possible translations or even noting (as the ESV puts it) that “the meaning of the Hebrew [or Greek] is uncertain.”

You think Greek and Hebrew words should be more limited in how many English words can be used to translate them?

You therefore state that “the Greek preposition “ek” which means “out of”, “from” or “away from”, and “by”. It is used to show the point of origin of an action (place, time or cause.) Thus the English word “of” means much the same thing.”

Your semantic insight is flawed. “Of” does not mean much the same as “out of”, “from”, “away from”, or “by”.

"Of" is
a foundational preposition used to indicate relationships like belonging/possession ("the queen of England"), content ("a cup of tea"), origin ("a man of noble birth"), or to link a part to a whole ("most of them"). It also defines characteristics, causes, and connects nouns with nouns or adjectives.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
What possesses man to rewrite the Scripture according to another text when the Lord has given us what He wanted us to have 400 years ago shortly after the Reformers put us back on track?
God NEVER has inspired ANY translation, asHhe ONLY did that for the Hebrew and Greek originals
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
You wish all the many different Bible versions were more similar to each other?

Bible translation differences stem from variations in ancient manuscripts, differing translation philosophies (literal vs. cultural vs. thought-for-thought), and the evolving nature of the English language. Translators must interpret complex Hebrew and Greek, balancing accuracy with readability, while new manuscript discoveries also lead to updated, varying texts.

Ancient languages lack punctuation and have grammatical structures that do not map directly to English, requiring translators to act as interpreters.

As modern English changes, new translations are created to ensure the text remains understandable to contemporary readers.

Multiple translations help to provide a more complete understanding of the original text, as no single translation can perfectly capture every nuance or idiom of the original language.

When there is such disagreement or uncertainty, the best translations of the Bible will acknowledge that in a footnote, making the reader aware of other possible translations or even noting (as the ESV puts it) that “the meaning of the Hebrew [or Greek] is uncertain.”

You think Greek and Hebrew words should be more limited in how many English words can be used to translate them?

You therefore state that “the Greek preposition “ek” which means “out of”, “from” or “away from”, and “by”. It is used to show the point of origin of an action (place, time or cause.) Thus the English word “of” means much the same thing.”

Your semantic insight is flawed. “Of” does not mean much the same as “out of”, “from”, “away from”, or “by”.

"Of" is
a foundational preposition used to indicate relationships like belonging/possession ("the queen of England"), content ("a cup of tea"), origin ("a man of noble birth"), or to link a part to a whole ("most of them"). It also defines characteristics, causes, and connects nouns with nouns or adjectives.
An there will be instances in the texts that has some ambiguity still remaining, as there are legit reasons one can transform that section in one way or another way, is it the faith of jesus or is it in jesus per example?
 
Top