George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Please answer the question with verses that speak about being "in him" or "in Christ", since we all agree that only scriptures interpret scriptures.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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George,Please answer the question with verses that speak about being "in him" or "in Christ", since we all agree that only scriptures interpret scriptures.
Thank you.
Per the above, it appears that you've already decided.You see here's the main reason for the disagreement, as far I see it, as a former Calvinist: Calvinists interpret clear passages in the light of dark ones, whereas non-Calvinists interpret dark passages in the light of the clear ones.
It's not the only choice that matters, because God himself told me in his word that my choice [faith, not works] does also, and I praise him for it.In addition, the only reason I see you creating these threads, is in opposition to God's choice being the only choice that matters.
Please answer the question with verses that speak about being "in him" or "in Christ", since we all agree that only scriptures interpret scriptures.
Thank you.
. . . predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, . . .
Both passages are about the same thing.. . . predestined us for adoption as sons . . . .
A related side note.
Both passages are about the same thing.
". . . waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. . . ." -- Romans 8:23.
". . . when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. . . ." --1 John 3:2.
You know the context. I cited what was said to be predestinated in Romans 8:29 and in Ephesians 1:5. 1 John 3:2 is a reference to Romans 8:29. And Romans 8:23 is a reference to Ephesians 1:5. The use of ". . ." means there is a larger context BTW.What are you actually saying here? You have chopped up what I posted and then chopped up 1 John 3.
I am a person who appreciates context. Minimalism and chopping things down to a sentence or phrase is a really poor method, in my opinion. I have no idea what point you are attempting to make.
Again...what are you talking about? I have no idea where you are going with this or what you are actually attempting to say.You know the context. I cited what was said to be predestinated in Romans 8:29 and in Ephesians 1:5. 1 John 3:2 is a reference to Romans 8:29. And Romans 8:23 is a reference to Ephesians 1:5. The use of ". . ." means there is a larger context BTW.
What was predestinated in Ephesians 1:5?Again...what are you talking about? I have no idea where you are going with this or what you are actually attempting to say.
The English terms, predestine and predestination come from the greek word, proorizo, a compound word that means "to determine beforehand."What was predestinated in Ephesians 1:5?
What was predestinated in Romans 8:29?
And what has that to do with being ". . . in Him . . ." in Ephesians 1:4?
What was predestinated in Ephesians 1:5?
What was predestinated in Romans 8:29?
And what has that to do with being ". . . in Him . . ." in Ephesians 1:4?
None of your answer answered what was asked.The English terms, predestine and predestination come from the greek word, proorizo, a compound word that means "to determine beforehand."
Essentially, predestination refers to setting the destiny, goal, or end of something before it happens.
Specifically, the "us" Paul is referring to in his letter is himself and the readers of his letter in Ephesus.
The question is: Are all persons who are reconciled with God adopted and predestined? I say, yes.
Ephesians 1:3-10 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
What was predestined?
Those whom God foreknew.
Romans 8:26-31 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
Being...
God made us alive together with Christ. Our life is because Christ exchanged our sin for His righteousness.
Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 2:17-21 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
It is all God. God accomplished what I could not do.
What was predestinated in Ephesians 1:5?
What was predestinated in Romans 8:29?
And what has that to do with being ". . . in Him . . ." in Ephesians 1:4?
You should rephrase it and say, "None of your answer is what I wanted to hear." That would be accurate. I answered your questions. You just didn't like the answers.None of your answer answered what was asked.
Hint, the "adoption," future, is in what we being in Christ causes us to to conform to His "image." Romans 8:23; 1 John 3:2. That is the "what" the saved in Christ are said to be predestinated.
Hint, the "adoption," future, is in what we being in Christ causes us to to conform to His "image." Romans 8:23; 1 John 3:2. That is the "what" the saved in Christ are said to be predestinated.
Ok, what were the answers you think I did not like and why do you think so for each?You should rephrase it and say, "None of your answer is what I wanted to hear." That would be accurate. I answered your questions. You just didn't like the answers.
Both.It seems you are trying to say that people are not predestined to salvation, but they are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ...later on.