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How were we "in him" (Christ) before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4)?

37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Particular said:
I don't understand your dilemma.
God chose the elect from before the foundation of the world. Why would anyone deny that?
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What dilemma? I believe God in His corporate election of His elect chose every individual. How could He in His foreknowing not?
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Particular said:
I don't understand your dilemma.
God chose the elect from before the foundation of the world. Why would anyone deny that?
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Chose them for what? Bible says chosen "to be holy and without blame before him". What do you think they were chosen for?
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Particular said:
LOL, #5...I'll have the Hot & Spicy Chicken with Fried Rice please.
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Your awesome debating skills is to denigrate other people, insult their intelligence, be a condescending know-it-all. It might make you feel good about yourself but it's not scoring debate points.
 
Particular

Particular

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
Your awesome debating skills is to denigrate other people, insult their intelligence, be a condescending know-it-all. It might make you feel good about yourself but it's not scoring debate points.
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LOL, like #5 is a debating skill. You funny.
 
Particular

Particular

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
It's no wonder you can't follow my confusion--I'm not confused.

Is "chose us in Him" in Ephesians 1:4 a reference to salvation?
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Chosen in Him encompasses being found in Christ. Salvation is one small aspect of what it means to be in Christ. To be in Christ means to be seated with him in the heavenlies. (Ephesians 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,)
It means to be crucified with Christ, yet Christ lives within me. (Galatians 2:20) It means to be immersed into Christ (baptized by the Spirit into Christ). It means all those things and more.
Stop being narrow in your scope of what it means to be in Christ. Do a word study to see all the times we are declared to be in Christ. It is amazing. Our position, established by God's gracious favor, is amazing and wonderful. How can we not rejoice?
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Particular said:
Chosen in Him encompasses being found in Christ. Salvation is one small aspect of what it means to be in Christ. To be in Christ means to be seated with him in the heavenlies. (Ephesians 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,)
It means to be crucified with Christ, yet Christ lives within me. (Galatians 2:20) It means to be immersed into Christ (baptized by the Spirit into Christ). It means all those things and more.
Stop being narrow in your scope of what it means to be in Christ. Do a word study to see all the times we are declared to be in Christ. It is amazing. Our position, established by God's gracious favor, is amazing and wonderful. How can we not rejoice?
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You are changing the phrase "chosen in Him" to mean "found in Christ."
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
Oh, OK. So in Ephesians 1:4, they weren't chosen for salvation?
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They were chosen "in Him"...to be placed in the body of Christ, before the foundation of the world.
The verse you may be looking for that addresses the bolded part of the question directly, is 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
InTheLight said:
You are changing the phrase "chosen in Him" to mean "found in Christ."
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No, he's not changing the phrase, because that would be twisting the Scriptures.
To me, he's adding the details of other passages together, and making significant connections about that which is all understood, together, not separately.

What I see him doing is expressing all that encompasses election and what it means to be elect.
That includes everything that is said about a believer..."found in Christ" relates to being "chosen in Him" relates to being "foreknown predestinated, called, justified and glorified" ( Romans 8:29-30 ).
For example:

Believers ( John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24 ) = Christ's sheep ( John 10:27 ) = elect ( Romans 8:33, Colossians 3:12, 1 Peter 1:2 ) = beloved ( 2 Peter 3:8 ) = "us" ( numerous passages in the New Testament epistles ) = "the righteous" ( the Psalms ) = "the wise man" ( the Proverbs ) = the prodigal son = "wheat" ( Matthew 13 ) = blessed = "of God" ( John 8:47 ).

Similarly, to be "found in Christ" = "elect" = "chosen in Him" = "found favor with God" = "faithful" = "conquerors" = "clothed in white" = "washed in the blood", etc.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Particular said:
Remind me where we disagree.
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Apparently over you not understanding my cross referencing predestnation in Romans 8:29 with 1 John 3:2 and in Ephesians 1:5 with Romans 8:23 referring to the ". . . change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, . . ."
 
Particular

Particular

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Apparently over you not understanding my cross referencing predestnation in Romans 8:29 with 1 John 3:2 and in Ephesians 1:5 with Romans 8:23 referring to the ". . . change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, . . ."
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You are correct. I don't follow what you are attempting to say.
 
utilyan

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Paul specifies Ephesians You were formerly not IN HIM and without Christ

So insisting you were saved prior to being IN JESUS. is not Christianity.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
Particular said:
Romans 8:29-30 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:4-5 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Scripture interprets scripture. In both places we see the predestination of God so that the elect are viewed in Christ (in God the Son) before time began.

These passages inform us of the Supremacy of God regarding his foreknowledge.
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Where do you get the "before time began". Scripture does not say" before time began" that part of this is imaginary. No one knows when time began. Certainly time may be infinite.
We aren't in Christ until we accept him as Savior and Lord. He has chosen us to be in Him IMHO. Other wise Eph. 1:4 makes no sense. We did not exist before the foundation of the world. There is no proof that we did. So why believe in the imaginary?
MB
 
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