Humans Do Not Generate Their Own Faith

[Dave G]

I gave you the greek .Strong's Definitions: τέλειος téleios, tel'-i-os; from G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness:—of full age, man, perfect.

Yes, you did.
Why did you feel the need to go back to the Greek, if I may ask?

 

[Barry Johnson]

That's why I don't use other English transaations, Barry.

To me, they often interchange words where the words are not warranted.

Gal 6 .same greek word used .

Yes, you did.
Why did you feel the need to go back to the Greek, if I may ask?

I didn't. I gave the context and the English , then the Greek. Because that's how the verse clearly reads in context . Why have those English translations given ' Mature ' as the majority translation ? Am I off the wall here ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Yes, you did.
Why did you feel the need to go back to the Greek, if I may ask?

Why have those English translations given ' Mature ' as the majority translation ? Am I off the wall here ?Because of the Word Telios .Thats why its given as ' Mature ' . This is the first time I've come across your version of Telios .

 

[InTheLight]

It's obvious from the context of 1 Cor. 2 that the mature or spiritual Christian can understand the wisdom and mysteries of God (v. 7) the deeper things of God (v. 10). God has given us his Spirit so we can understand these things ( v. 12-13.) The natural man can't receive these deeper things regarding the wisdom of God (v. 14) BUT they can understand the gospel.

It's not complicated.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Yes, you did.
Why did you feel the need to go back to the Greek, if I may ask?

So were still on this verse really , before we can move on .
6¶Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are MATURE yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
This makes all the difference. You cannot make sense of the rest of the verses without this verse . Especially verses 14 , 15 and the beginning of chapter 3 .

 

[Sai]

True, which is why no man can be saved, except God makes them alive and gifts them faith to believe. (Ephesians 2:5-9)

God does sometimes limit his sovereignty over man and in the case of the elect that’s exactly what he did when he enabled me to choose to follow the requirement of salvation to believe. I can understand why you believe faith is the gift and you’re free to believe that but I see salvation written everywhere in scripture as the gift.

 

[Sai]

I'm not a "Calvinist".
I read the Bible, and this is what comes out.

No help from men, Sai.

Yes it’s too bad his name is used. He had severe doctrinal issues that I’m convinced Baptist ministers would categorically deny. Such as the sending of elders to inspect believers homes to insure they weren’t committing sins. And the teaching that the lost were irretrievably lost of whom his determination of their status was based upon going to the playhouse etc.

 

[Sai]

Which is silly . God commands everyone to believe the Gospel and withholds the very thing necessary for one to believe. Wake up Augustinists !

Men left to themselves cannot believe.

 

[Sai]

It's obvious from the context of 1 Cor. 2 that the mature or spiritual Christian can understand the wisdom and mysteries of God (v. 7) the deeper things of God (v. 10). God has given us his Spirit so we can understand these things ( v. 12-13.) The natural man can't receive these deeper things regarding the wisdom of God (v. 14) BUT they can understand the gospel.

It's not complicated.

I’m impressed.

 

[Sai]

Jews are the Sheep, Not English / Americans in 2020 .

Huh?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Yes it’s too bad his name is used. He had severe doctrinal issues that I’m convinced Baptist ministers would categorically deny. Such as the sending of elders to inspect believers homes to insure they weren’t committing sins. And the teaching that the lost were irretrievably lost of whom his determination of their status was based upon going to the playhouse etc.

Also when we look at our watches we can think of Calvin who said that jewellery was a sin . Being as man will always seek a work a round would wear a watch instead and gradually watches in the area became more and more ornate. The beginnings of Lordship salvation.

 

[Sai]

Also when we look at our watches we can think of Calvin who said that jewellery was a sin . Being as man will always seek a work a round would wear a watch instead and gradually watches in the area became more and more ornate. The beginnings of Lordship salvation.

I don’t know that much about him but I heard he canceled Christmas

 

[Barry Johnson]

Men left to themselves cannot believe.

Depends what you mean ? Men can believe the Gospel when Heard of course . Otherwise why is God demanding everyone to repent and believe if they cannot ? wouldn't it be odd if you told a child to clean his room if he was physically unable?

 

[Barry Johnson]

I don’t know that much about him but I heard he canceled Christmas

Scrooge lol

 

[AustinC]

Depends what you mean ? Men can believe the Gospel when Heard of course . Otherwise why is God demanding everyone to repent and believe if they cannot ? wouldn't it be odd if you told a child to clean his room if he was physically unable?

This is a perfect example of man judging God and demanding that God tell him why God does what God does.

God tells His ambassadors to go, preach reconciliation. To those whom God chooses, the message will be received with joy, belief, faith and repentance. To those whom God has not given as sheep to Jesus, those will not believe, indeed cannot believe.

 

[Sai]

Scrooge lol

I wish I had the seminary experience to know his work better. But I’ve no need to examine further the doctrine of predestination. It is clear to me that man left to himself is never going to seek after our God and father and that we are completely saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone plus nothing. Not even our faith is seen as a work. Because God made the first move.

 

[Sai]

Depends what you mean ? Men can believe the Gospel when Heard of course . Otherwise why is God demanding everyone to repent and believe if they cannot ? wouldn't it be odd if you told a child to clean his room if he was physically unable?

None of the South American tribes heard the gospel until Cortez and the Catholics arrived. That means that for hundreds of years all of them died without having the opportunity to reject the gospel that they never heard!

 

[Sai]

God tells His ambassadors to go, preach reconciliation. To those whom God chooses, the message will be received with joy, belief, faith and repentance. To those whom God has not given as sheep to Jesus, those will not believe, indeed cannot believe.[/QUOTE]

What a relief. If they cannot believe then no need to study their errors like jws Mormons etc. just keep tasering all with the foolishnessof preaching the simple gospel and let the chips fall where they may! Praise God

 

[Dave G]

Men can believe the Gospel when Heard of course

" For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 ).

According to this, those that perish think that the preaching of the cross is foolishness, while those who are saved do not.

So, how many men can believe the Gospel when it is preached?
I see that it is only those that are saved, i.e. the elect.

 

[Dave G]

So were still on this verse really , before we can move on .

We don't need to move on Barry.
I can see that we disagree, and that no amount of clarification will ever lead to our agreement.

I see that 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 develops that no one but those who have the Spirit will ever receive the things of God, for they are only known by the Spirit of God...
And to whomsoever the Spirit will reveal them.

That the natural man, who is the person who is not indwelt by the Holy Ghost, will ever be able to receive the things spoken by Paul in his epistles.

This is my final reply to you in this thread.
I wish you well, sir.