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Husband of one Wife

williemakeit

New Member
Originally posted by manchester:
Did the early church interpret the passage in a way that says divorced men, living with a second "wife," commit no sin and therefore can be deacons? Or did the early church believe that men who divorce and remarry are constantly committing adultery with their new "spouse"?

It looks to me that they did not allow divorce and remarriage, even for fornication. Those who "remarried" were still married to the first spouse and were committing adultery. Only when the divorced spouse dies can you remarry without being an adulterer.

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Shepherd of Hermas: "What then shall the husband do, if the wife continue in this disposition [adultery]? Let him divorce her, and let the husband remain single. But if he divorce his wife and marry another, he too commits adultery" (The Shepherd 4:1:6 [A.D. 80]).

Justin Martyr: "In regard to chastity, [Jesus] has-this to say: 'If anyone look with lust at a woman, he has already before God committed adultery in his heart.' And, 'Whoever marries a woman who has been divorced from another husband, commits adultery.' According to our Teacher, just as they are sinners who contract a second marriage, even though it be in accord with human law, so also are they sinners who look with lustful desire at a woman. He repudiates not only one who actually commits adultery, but even one who wishes to do so; for not only our actions are manifest to God, but even our thoughts" (First Apology 15 [A.D. 151]).

Clement of Alexandria: "Now that the Scripture counsels marriage, and allows no release from the union, is expressly contained in the law, 'Thou shalt not put away thy wife, except for the cause of fornication;' and it regards as fornication, the marriage of those separated while the other is alive. Not to deck and adorn herself beyond what is becoming, renders a wife free of calumnious suspicion. while she devotes herself assiduously to prayers and supplications; avoiding frequent departures from the house, and shutting herself up as far as possible from the view of all not related to her, and deeming housekeeping of more consequence than impertinent trifling. 'He that taketh a woman that has been put away,' it is said, 'committeth adultery; and if one puts away his wife, he makes her an adulteress,' that is, compels her to commit adultery. And not only is he who puts her away guilty of this, but he who takes her, by giving to the woman the opportunity of sinning; for did he not take her, she would return to her husband." {Stromata, 2:24 (A.D. 202), in ANF, II:379}

Origen: "Just as a woman is an adulteress, even though she seem to be married to a man, while a former husband yet lives, so also the man who seems to marry her who has been divorced does not marry her, but, according to the declaration of our Savior, he commits adultery with her"

(Commentaries on Matthew 14:24 [A.D. 248]).

Council of Elvira: "Likewise, women who have left their husbands for no prior cause and have joined themselves with others, may not even at death receive communion" (canon 8 [A.D. 300]).

"Likewise, a woman of the faith [i.e., a baptized person] who has left an adulterous husband of the faith and marries another, her marrying in this manner is prohibited. If she has so married, she may not at any more receive communion--unless he that she has left has since departed from this world" (ibid., canon 9).

"if a woman of the faithful is taken in marriage by a man who left an innocent wife, and if she knew that he had a wife whom he had left without cause, it is determined that communion is not to be given to her even at death" (ibid., canon 10)

John Chrysostom: "'What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.' See a teacher's wisdom. I mean, that being asked, Is it lawful? He did not at once say, It is not lawful, lest they should be disturbed and put in disorder, but before the decision by His argument He rendered this manifest, showing that it is itself too the commandment of His Father, and that not in opposition to Moses did He enjoin these things, but in full agreement with him. But mark Him arguing strongly not from the creation only, but also from His command. For He said not, that He made one man and one woman only, but that He also gave this command that the one man should be joined to the one woman. But if it had been His will that he should put this one away, and bring in another, when He had made one man, He would have formed many Women. But now both by the manner of the creation, and by the manner of lawgiving, He showed that one man must dwell with one woman continually, and never break off from her." {On Matthew, 62:1 (A.D. 370), in NPNF1,X:382}

Basil the Great: "A man who marries after another man's wife has been taken away from him will be charged with adultery in the case of the first woman; but in the case of the second he will be guiltless" (Second Canonical Letter to Amphilochius 199:37 [A.D. 375]).

"No one is permitted to know a woman other than his wife. The marital right is given you for this reason: lest you fall into the snare and sin with a strange woman. 'If you are bound to a wife do not seek a divorce'; for you are not permitted, while your wife lives, to marry another." (Abraham 1:7:59 [A.D. 387]).

"You dismiss your wife, therefore, as if by right and without being charged with wrongdoing; and you suppose it is proper for you to do so because no human law forbids it; but divine law forbids it. Anyone who obeys men ought to stand in awe of God. Hear the law of the Lord, which even they who propose our laws must obey: 'What God has joined together let no man put asunder'" (Commentary on Luke 8:5 [A.D. 389]).

Jerome: "Do not tell me about the violence of the ravisher, about the persuasiveness of a mother, about the authority of a father, about the influence of relatives, about the intrigues and insolence of servants, or about household [financial] losses. So long as a husband lives, be he adulterer, be he sodomite, be he addicted to every kind of vice, if she left him on account of his crimes he is still her husband still and she may not take another" (Letters 55:3 [A.D. 396]).

"Wherever there is fornication and a suspicion of fornication a wife is freely dismissed. Because it is always possible that someone may calumniate the innocent and, for the sake of a second joining in marriage, act in criminal fashion against the first, it is commanded that when the first wife is dismissed a second may not be taken while the first lives" (Commentaries on Matthew 3:19:9 [A.D. 398]).

Augustine: "Neither can it rightly be held that a husband who dismisses his wife because of fornication and marries another does not commit adultery. For there is also adultery on the part of those who, after the repudiation of their former wives because of fornication, marry others. This adultery, nevertheless, is certainly less serious than that of men who dismiss their wives for reasons other than fornication and take other wives. Therefore, when we say: 'Whoever marries a woman dismissed by her husband for reason other than fornication commits adultery,' undoubtedly we speak the truth. But we do not thereby acquit of this crime the man who marries a woman who was dismissed because of fornication. We do not doubt in the least that both are adulterers. We do indeed pronounce him an adulterer who dismissed his wife for cause other than fornication and marries another, nor do we thereby defend from the taint of this sin the man who dismissed his wife because of fornication and marries another. We recognize that both are adulterers, though the sin of one is more grave than that of the other. No one is so unreasonable to say that a man who marries a woman whose husband has dismissed her because of fornication is not an adulterer, while maintaining that a man who marries a woman dismissed without the ground of fornication is an adulterer. Both of these men are guilty of adultery" (Adulterous Marriages 1:9:9 [A.D. 419]).

"A woman begins to be the wife of no later husband unless she has ceased to be the wife of a former one. She will cease to be the wife of a former one, however, if that husband should die, not if he commit fornication. A spouse, therefore, is lawfully dismissed for cause of fornication; but the bond of chastity remains. That is why a man is guilty of adultery if he marries a woman who has been dismissed even for this very reason of fornication" (ibid., 2:4:4).
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Given this, even if the verse means a "one-woman man," a divorced and remarried man cannot possibly be a "one-woman man" - he is an adulterer.
Yes, but today we have even greater enlightenment and greater wisdom than that of these mortal men. ;)
 

Scott J

Active Member
Site Supporter
No. Actually, we have the Word of God which trumps even the best interpretations of the greatest theologians.

Just deal with the text. If you could, you wouldn't be trying all these diversions while avoiding what the text actually says completely.
 
D

dianetavegia

Guest
Pastor Larry said: In 1 Cor 7, remarriage after divorce is specifically said to not be sin. I have a hard time contradicting Scripture to meet up with the standards that someone else has.

I agree BUT the Bible says
1Co 13:13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Mt 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
Joh 14:24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
Matthew 18:21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" 22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
Matt. 6:14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Divorce for the cause of adultery should come only after the above scriptural criteria are met. Divorce for any other reason is a sin and the person who divorces for any other reason and then remarries commits adultery.
 

Pastor Larry

<b>Moderator</b>
Site Supporter
I agree with every verse you have cited, Diane, and for the most part i agree with your interpretation of them. I hope you know by now that I do not condone divorce and do not recommend it. Divorce is always a last resort. The question is, What do we do after divorce?

Jesus specifically said that one who remarries after divorce for fornication is not committing adultery.

Paul said that one who is divorced by desertion has been loosed, which most take (properly I think) as free to remarry.

Paul specifically said that one who remarries after divorce "has not sinned." I don't think we can really take the liberty to contradict that.

BTW, forgiveness does not always mean reconciliation. Reconciliation takes two parties, and if one is not willing, then there can be no reconciliation of hte marriage.
 
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dianetavegia

Guest
Agree Pastor Larry. I wanted to make sure it was clear to you and others that I believe divorce after adultery and dessertion is okay IF the other criteria is met. A 'lifestyle' of adultery with no repentance or adultery and dissertion frees the innocent party. Restoration should be sought and forgiveness offered.

I believe JohnV wouldn't mind me saying that I felt he had done everything scripture commanded of him to try and save his first marriage. I find no scriptural problem with his remarriage.

I would not expect any divorced man to be deacon material tho because of the 'ruler of his house' criteria.
 

OSAS

Member
Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
I would not hire a person for church treasurer who embezzled money prior to salvation.
Sorry, i just wouldn't.

I would not hire a person to work with children
in Sunday School who had molested children
before salvation. Sorry, I just woulldn't.
God would not make Saul of Tarsus an Apostle, sorry, He just wouldn't.

Acts 9:21 "But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?"
 

Scott J

Active Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by dianetavegia:

I would not expect any divorced man to be deacon material tho because of the 'ruler of his house' criteria.
It is wonderful to be able to agree with you... sort of.

A divorce would definitely raise concerns about a man's ability to rule his own house.

For instance, a man with children from another marriage that do not live in his home could not rule those children in any practical sense that would satisfy this requirement.

An ex-wife that continued to have dealings whether financial, through a child, or other would most likely prevent a man from ruling his own house well. He has lost an element of control.
 

manchester

New Member
Originally posted by OSAS:
Where does divorce fit in this scripture???

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
If divorce is a sin, it's forgiven. But divorce isn't the problem, it's the adultery thereafter.
 

manchester

New Member
Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
[QB] Jesus specifically said that one who remarries after divorce for fornication is not committing adultery.
He said that people who divorce and remarry for any other reason commit adultery. He was silent on those divorce over fornication.

As to those who divorce for reasons other than adultery, Jesus could not have been clearer. The only question is whether adultery is good for deacons.
 
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dianetavegia

Guest
The answer is that divorce is wrong for everyone. No one wins. The trick is to allow your Heavenly Father to guide you in your choice of a mate and not to enter easily into that life long covenant.

I've lost a lot of online friends because of my stance against divorce but I cannot water down scripture to save a friendship.
 

OSAS

Member
Originally posted by manchester:
If divorce is a sin, it's forgiven. But divorce isn't the problem, it's the adultery thereafter.
So the scripture is in error?

"old things are passed away..." You mean forgiven but not forgotton??? That is forgivness?

"all things are become new" Except for a few that remain old that can be used as a weapon later on down the road???

Maybe I am in error?
 

Phillip

<b>Moderator</b>
Originally posted by El_Guero:
Dr. Bob,

I admit that sounds good. But, I do not find the implication that this does NOT exlude divorce in the studies I have done on this verse.

Let me be clear:

I do read Scripture with the understanding that the likes of Paul KNEW the OT.

In the Torah, a priest could NOT marry a divorced woman ... NOT even considered. The High Priest MUST marry a virgin.

In light of Paul's culture, it is not reasonable to think that Paul would ever consider a divorced man, or a man married to a divorced woman as Pastor.
Sorry I am responding after 20 pages, but obviously you are trying to make decisions based on what you "assume" Paul's culture was like, while ignoring scripture. Do we go by the scripture or historical tradition?
 

Phillip

<b>Moderator</b>
I once had a pastor who discussed divorce. His response was interesting in that once a man and woman were remarried (for whatever reason they were divorced), it would be a sin for them to seperate "after the fact". Two wrongs don't make a right.

(I know this has nothing to do with qualifications for pastors, but a good point regarding people who try to make divorce into an unforgiveable and on-going sin.)
 

manchester

New Member
Originally posted by OSAS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by manchester:
If divorce is a sin, it's forgiven. But divorce isn't the problem, it's the adultery thereafter.
So the scripture is in error?

"old things are passed away..." You mean forgiven but not forgotton??? That is forgivness?

"all things are become new" Except for a few that remain old that can be used as a weapon later on down the road???

Maybe I am in error?
</font>[/QUOTE]Getting saved doesn't dissolve your marriage. No matter what some here claim, marriage is NOT a sin that is forgiven. Your marriage does NOT end with legal divorce, nor does it end when you get saved. The marriage remains for your lifetime, no matter what the laws of men say.

Again, divorce is not the problem. That's just a legal technicality. The problem is the fact that Jesus said, over and Over and OVER in the Bible, that a divorced person living with a new "wife" is committing adultery.

No piece of paper from a government saying that you're legally in a gay marriage, or legally divorced, will change the facts in God's eyes. You are still married to your first wife. You know the scriptures. You know that you are committing adultery with this woman you call your "new wife," yet you continue in the sin and you excuse the sin of others who do likewise, even making them deacons.

The scriptures are crystal clear on this. Jesus was crystal clear on this. You don't need to know the constant teaching of Christianity, from the early church straight through to today, to know that "divorced" people are still married to the first spouse and are committing adultery with the new "spouse." Just look at what Jesus said.
 

Gershom

Active Member
Isn't there a posting rule that says you must be a member of a Baptist church to post in 'Baptist Only' areas?
 

manchester

New Member
Matthew 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Mark 1-:2-12 "Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?" "What did Moses command you?" he replied. They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away." "It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied. "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.' 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery." -- Jesus, in Mark 10:2-12.

Luke 16:18 Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

PLEASE explain this to me. How was Jesus wrong when he said these things? Why didn't Jesus know that divorce ends the marriage? Didn't he know that there can be no adultery, as the legal divorce ends the marriage; man successfully overthrows God and separates what God has joined?

I have asked this for many pages now, without a single response. Is there not a single pro-divorcer who can explain away these verses?
 

manchester

New Member
Originally posted by Gershom:
Isn't there a posting rule that says you must be a member of a Baptist church to post in 'Baptist Only' areas?
It's Baptist only, and your denomination "Christ Jesus - crucified and risen" is non-Baptist.
 
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