Ray Berrian said
This is why Irresistible Grace is a false doctrine. [John 5:40] . . .and I have more references to resisting the Gospel if you are still not convinced by these two . . .
You just display your ignorance of the doctrine you criticise. Calvinism does not teach that the gospel is not resisted by the lost. It teaches that when God decides to save a man, THEN the gospel is made irresistible to him.
Ray: Wrong! The Lord through the Apostle Paul is writing to the church not the people who are sinners. Have you forgot that all Christians are 'spiritual judging all things.' [I Corinthians 2:15a & I Cor. 2:16c] You have again got caught in your false theory of Total Depravity. You'll have to watch that pit-fall once again.
Oh, so Paul says to the church, Rom.9: 20But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" ? Another priceless bit of Free-will exegesis.
Ray: Read it in the Greek. God speaking through Paul says, 'WHAT IF . . .' This is purely hypothetical.
A gem! Seeing then that He did not endure the vessels of wrath, I take it He will not make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? ?
I had said, 'Why not tell the readers that your sort of free-willism was the Romanism
the Reformers warred against?' To which you replied,
You wish. The Reformers when along with the ancient Catholicism minus some Catholic doctrines like purgatory, penance, adoration of Mary and so on. The five points of Calvinism go back to the alleged great theologian, St. Augustine. Some Protestants and non-Catholic denominations have drank deeply from the error of this false teacher, the Augustinian.
Haven't you heard of, for example, Luther's 'ON THE BONDAGE OF THE WILL', and Erasmus' controversy with him on it?
Or the Council of Trent, example CANON XVII.-'If any one saith, that the grace of Justification is only attained to by those who are predestined unto life; but that all others who are called, are called indeed, but receive not grace, as being, by the divine power, predestined unto evil; let him be anathema.'
And from Chapter V of Trent, 'they, who by sins were alienated from God, may be disposed through His quickening and assisting grace, to convert themselves to their own justification, by freely assenting to and co-operating with that said grace: in such sort that, while God touches the heart of man by the illumination of the Holy Ghost, neither is man himself utterly without doing anything while he receives that inspiration, forasmuch as he is also able to reject it; yet is he not able, by his own free will, without the grace of God, to move himself unto justice in His sight.'
That is a good statement of Arminianism, but it was the official statement of Romanism, issued in 1547.
Please show the readers the Calvinism you say characterized Rome at that time.
Try to explain from the Bible, how God can maintain His Divine justice/fairness and still damn, of His own will and accord, the majority of the world's population. We believe Jesus died for the sins of every sinner. [I John 2:2] Do you 'white out' this verse with 'liquid paper?'
Easy. For example, Rom.3: 19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom. 5: 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--
No, I do not white out 1 John 2: 2And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. I take it in its most natural sense - for the sins of all nationalities. Your difficulty arises when you make it everyman, for the scripture not only says Christ is the propitiation for the sins of 'the whole world', it says He MADE propitiation for their sins. He actually satisfied God for His people's sins. He did not make it possible, He actually did it. Or has He still to do it?
I assume you believe not everyman will be at peace with God. Surely you then can see that Christ could not have made propitiation for them?
Actually, I am able to read the Book of Romans and have been able since about eight years old. Don't just write it down, give it your best shot at interpreting it. We'll let you know when you miss the mark.
It was YOU who said, You Calvinists have a problem because Jacob was the 'deceiver' while Esau, in my studies, was more Godly than his brother. But, according to Calvinists the Lord rewarded Esau and sent him to Hell, while throwing open the gates of Heaven to his malicious brother, Jacob. Oh, but let me say it for you, God is sovereign and does what pleases His own will and Divine purposes. But, I think we should give the Lord a little more credit as to His credibility and Divine justice toward all human beings who are born into this world. YOU made God's treatment of Esau dependent on his conduct, rather than God's sovereign choice of one sinner over another.
Hebrews 11 declares Esau and Jacob as being the sons of the promise who would and have inherited everlasting life.
You read that into it. That would make all Israelites inheritors of everlasting life. And it plainly ignores the other reference in Hebrews to Esau - a profane person.
If only Jacob was saved Isaac would not have 'blessed' Esau also. And why should Isaac explain about ' . . . things to come' if he was selected for Hell by this alleged brutal, sovereign God who autocratically picks people for Hell, merely for His alleged glory and praise. How weird is that?
Isaac's 'blessing' of Esau was far inferior to that of Jacob. It is like God's goodness to the reprobate, His longsuffering toward them. As to God being brutal, it is you who have too high a view of sinful man. God could righteously cast us all into hell, but in His great love He chose many to be saved by the sacrifice of His Son. That is amazing grace - I would not call it weird.
So if God has anything to do with making people millionaires, then perhaps He loves them more than some of us who have less money. Things do not matter to the Lord; He values most our life of holiness lived in His Presence and in our world.
You write-off God's goodness to men in giving material blessings, Acts 14:17 Nevertheless He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness."
'Jacob and Esau were children of faith, as was their father (Hebrews 11:20). So it is not merely little me who believes this. Dr. Tenney was Dean of the graduate school of theology at Wheaton College, Wheaton, Illinois, with a Ph.D. from Harvard University. You really need to rethink this whole maze of error that you have apparently thought was right.
Since when did a Doctorate stop one being foolish? Dr.Adam Clarke, as I recall, considered Balaam a child of God. Of course, he was also an Arminian.
In Him
Ian
