Robert, just curious, is hyper-Calvinist code name for Primitive Baptist? If it is, I'll have respect for you for being gutsy enough to admit it.
That was my first thought upon reading the OP.
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Robert, just curious, is hyper-Calvinist code name for Primitive Baptist? If it is, I'll have respect for you for being gutsy enough to admit it.
Well, then, whether you were truly not referring to me, for one, or not, I am not able to discern but I, for one, say the above.
First of all, I do not think the use of the term "will be saved" is appropriate anymore, unless, of course, by some form of verbal maneuvering or semantics we can cause the terms "having obtained eternal redemption for us" found in Hebrews 9:12 to mean anything else other than that eternal redemption is already a reality, finished, done, which necessitates people to still 'be saved', which in turn, logically, requires a present and ongoing redemption by a redeemer, as opposed to one who, by His own blood, entered into the rest of the Eternal God by sitting at the right hand of power.
If eternal redemption has been obtained, rightfully by the rightful Person, Jesus Christ, who should obtain it for those for whom redemption is purposed, His people, then the gospel has no power to grant that redemption, at all, since it is already finished.
Therefore, whether or not the ones to whom that redemption is intended, hears the gospel does not at all affect their eternal standing. They have been redeemed and saved by the Son of God, sanctified by Him, justified through His blood, and the purpose of the gospel is merely to INFORM them of their redemption, and point them to their redeemer, that they may worship Him, and live a life that is worthy of His Name.
Am I belittling the gospel ?
No, I am not. It is an important part of God's plan for His people, but it has no part at all in their eternal redemption, which is over.
OTOH, if redemption has not been obtained, then there is a lot of referring to the Greek that has to be done, a lot of debating about what this or that word means and actually intended to convey, a lot of aspiring to seminary education that the preacher "called" by God to save the souls of His people has to do.
Most importantly, the souls and salvation of millions of people now depended on the ability and willingness of people to "respond" to God's call, to forsake their family, their own lives, and risk everything for.....the Gospel.
More than that, the Creator God, who spoke everything around us into existence, would most utterly have failed, because while He put in writing for one and all to see that "He would have all men to be saved", in fact, many men are being doomed to eternity in hell because, alas, unlike Him, mortal men cannot even create water to wash the sleep off their eyes, nor get to the grocery store without a car, much less get to faraway places like, say, Cambodia where the devil is really romping around among those sin-laden Buddhists.
Without the gospel, how can they be saved ?
So you see, Mr Snow, I would rather throw my lot in with a God who purposed to save many from the fallen race of Adam, and did it Himself, whose words I can trust to be true (let God be true, and every man a liar) when He says "it is finished" and I can rest assured that, indeed, in heaven there shall be many who will come out of great tribulation from ALL tongues, ALL nations, and ALL kindred, including many who lived before Abraham or Israel, in places far away from the East, when yet there was no gospel to preach, or limited, sinful men to preach it.
Peace.
Robert, just curious, is hyper-Calvinist code name for Primitive Baptist? If it is, I'll have respect for you for being gutsy enough to admit it.
The 'free' 'gift' is eternal life, NOT salvation. As I stated in another thread, it is the error of the modern evangelical Church to not make a clear distinction between the two. 'Getting saved' is NOT synonymous with regeneration, i.e., the acquiring of eternal life.......repenting of their sins and accepting the free gift of salvation from God.....
The 'free' 'gift' is eternal life, NOT salvation. As I stated in another thread, it is the error of the modern evangelical Church to not make a clear distinction between the two. 'Getting saved' is NOT synonymous with regeneration, i.e., the acquiring of eternal life.
.....I've been a Christian since 1969 and this is the first time I have ever heard such a statement.....
As I said, "it is the error of the modern evangelical Church to not make a clear distinction between the two".
I fear that many five point Calvinists (the ones who are hyper-Calvinists) are heretics (not all, but some) who have fooled themselves into thinking they belong to Christ.
If a person believes that they just all of a sudden recognized that they are part of the redeemed without repenting of their sins and accepting the free gift of salvation from God, I seriously doubt that they are saved at all!
we feel called on to state it as a historical truth, not successfully to be denied, that wherever Missionary Societies, Bible Societies, Tract Societies, Sunday Schools, Dorcas Societies, Mite Societies, Religious Fairs and Festivals, Temperance Societies, Sectarian Schools and Theological Seminaries in America prevail, there the doctrine of Phariseeism (modernly called Arminianism) prevails, there the doctrine of saving the souls of men from sin and from hell by works which men may do for themselves and for each other prevails. There the mark of the Beast and there persecution prevail.
it is the error of the modern evangelical Church to not make a clear distinction between the two. 'Getting saved' is NOT synonymous with regeneration, i.e., the acquiring of eternal life.
The 'free' 'gift' is eternal life, NOT salvation.
Originally Posted by kyredneck
it is the error of the modern evangelical Church to not make a clear distinction between the two. 'Getting saved' is NOT synonymous with regeneration, i.e., the acquiring of eternal life.
Right on ...............
Then what pray tell is salvation?
"Eternal life is not salvation." That is a new one on me.
Care to share scripture that proves regeneration is not the same as salvation?
Care to share scripture that proves regeneration is not the same as salvation?
No, not with you.
Faith precedes regeneration (new birth) as scripture clearly teaches.
What Scripture clearly teaches that?
No, not with you.