You lie, horrendously.
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I Have To Conclude.....
- Thread starter Earth Wind and Fire
- Start date
You lie, horrendously.
From John MacArthur at one end to Zane Hodges at the other end of the spectrum, I don't believe any are saying salvation means it is a-ok to sin like the devil since heaven is already a sure thing for a saved person.
What some puritans seem to want to do is judge other's fruit IN ORDER to condemn them as unsaved. Only God gets to do that!
What we can do is teach the truth. If it appears the fruit isn't ripe, so to speak, we are certainly free to pray our concern, asking God to lead the person into all truth.
What we are taught in scripture is to NOT assume we are sinless ourselves, or less sinful, and free to judge. And we are taught that gossip and a judgmental spirit are sins just as evil as this woman told of in this thread.
Really, each of us needs to be a fruit inspector of OUR OWN fruit, and not that of others
God has folks claiming salvation but unsaved, yes. He also has His saved babies and idiotsI strive to be His mature woman, but if I am a babe or idiot well thank God for His mercy and grace.
OK, I guess you can prove out that one that turns their back on God & believes that they will be rewarded with eternal life with Christ is going to happen..... I do not. But feel free to throw your scripture to prove your point & I will post mine. And keep trying to call people Puritan's or what ever name you want to come up with. No skin!
Perhaps Ive missed it but I do not see a response to an earlier question. Maybe you can point it out but if not, here again:
Can a person not be a disciple of Christ & still consider themselves Christian?
Prove it.
We all have relatives (some long dead) who rejected the Scriptures and denied Christ.
There is a part of the believer that examples that of Christ weeping over Jerusalem for the lack of positive response to the imploring of God; more often, that response is also coupled with a certain anger toward the still living that reject the truth in which more often great condemnation in words and actions are taken. At times, events are used to demonstrate disapproval and display some "spiritual" aspect. Perhaps, it would have been better to have grieved and proclaimed the longing love of the heart. Show the meek and quiet spirit of humble strength found in Christ, rather than stirring the embers into flames under the pot of disapproval.
There is a time when the believer should express anger of condemnation, but the most clear condemnations given by Christ were not against those who came out to meet him in need, but those who were self righteous in their doing, those of the teachers and rulers who were so self righteous yet fully condemned.
Personally, I save my most harsh remarks for those of the supposed redeemed preachers and teachers who think (as did those religious self righteous throughout the millennia) that their own self righteousness will excuse some excess of sinful behavior. I cannot begin to count the number of people who would excuse all manner of excess because they were a "soul winner." Some even proclaimed by others as being "a great soul winner." Or claim that by "office" or "appointment" they are above rebuke and exposure for their sinfulness. Such were and are liars, thieves, murderers, adulterers, and involved in all other manners of wicked excess, yet excused the behavior; one even saying, "great men have great appetites." Such were and are disgusting, and worthy of great condemnation, for they lead others astray.
However, there is no need to condemn the lost. They already know they are condemned. That is part of the work of the Holy Spirit to the world.
John 16:
Rather, point the lost to the reconciliation found in and through Christ.
That doesn't mean that excuse is offered to the lost. Sin is sin and not to be excused. However, there is a great difference in agreement that ALL have sinned (Romans 5) and are therefore condemned, and presenting that believers are without condemnation (Romans 8). Never neglect that between those two great statements in Scriptures, there is a purposed work of God to enslave the believer (Romans 6) to His will and purpose. Where once the unbeliever was already condemned (John 3), it is by God's purpose and by His grace that the believer possesses the "benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life." (Romans 6).
I would encourage the agreement that All have sinned, and point to the reconciliation that is found only in Christ. Then let the Holy Spirit do the work that the Scriptures teach He will do in the life of a believer. If there is no growth from that work of the Holy Spirit, then perhaps there is no belief, and one remains condemned. They are as those who our Lord wept over as He gazed upon Jerusalem.
There is a part of the believer that examples that of Christ weeping over Jerusalem for the lack of positive response to the imploring of God; more often, that response is also coupled with a certain anger toward the still living that reject the truth in which more often great condemnation in words and actions are taken. At times, events are used to demonstrate disapproval and display some "spiritual" aspect. Perhaps, it would have been better to have grieved and proclaimed the longing love of the heart. Show the meek and quiet spirit of humble strength found in Christ, rather than stirring the embers into flames under the pot of disapproval.
There is a time when the believer should express anger of condemnation, but the most clear condemnations given by Christ were not against those who came out to meet him in need, but those who were self righteous in their doing, those of the teachers and rulers who were so self righteous yet fully condemned.
Personally, I save my most harsh remarks for those of the supposed redeemed preachers and teachers who think (as did those religious self righteous throughout the millennia) that their own self righteousness will excuse some excess of sinful behavior. I cannot begin to count the number of people who would excuse all manner of excess because they were a "soul winner." Some even proclaimed by others as being "a great soul winner." Or claim that by "office" or "appointment" they are above rebuke and exposure for their sinfulness. Such were and are liars, thieves, murderers, adulterers, and involved in all other manners of wicked excess, yet excused the behavior; one even saying, "great men have great appetites." Such were and are disgusting, and worthy of great condemnation, for they lead others astray.
However, there is no need to condemn the lost. They already know they are condemned. That is part of the work of the Holy Spirit to the world.
John 16:
“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged."
Rather, point the lost to the reconciliation found in and through Christ.
That doesn't mean that excuse is offered to the lost. Sin is sin and not to be excused. However, there is a great difference in agreement that ALL have sinned (Romans 5) and are therefore condemned, and presenting that believers are without condemnation (Romans 8). Never neglect that between those two great statements in Scriptures, there is a purposed work of God to enslave the believer (Romans 6) to His will and purpose. Where once the unbeliever was already condemned (John 3), it is by God's purpose and by His grace that the believer possesses the "benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life." (Romans 6).
I would encourage the agreement that All have sinned, and point to the reconciliation that is found only in Christ. Then let the Holy Spirit do the work that the Scriptures teach He will do in the life of a believer. If there is no growth from that work of the Holy Spirit, then perhaps there is no belief, and one remains condemned. They are as those who our Lord wept over as He gazed upon Jerusalem.
You've made the outrageous accusation, the onus is on you to prove it.
Did you have a bad experience the last time you visited a PB church?
Have you ever put forth the effort to visit a PB church?
Why......you have never even answered a direct question. But no I have not visited with one.......got any suggestions? There is not one in New Jersey. I have listened to a number of sermons & have read enough to know that there is a smattering of different doctrines & some that give credence to people making allowances for sinful lives getting to heaven. Must I pull them together & post them for you? I've no problem doing so.
The one who has epitomized blathering accuses others.
Yea, cite your sources that show the Primitive Baptist church exalts carnality.
The one who has epitomized blathering accuses others.
Jealous ....
Yea, cite your sources that show the Primitive Baptist church exalts carnality.
Case in point what,
Why don't you explain to everyone the "consept" of Temporal Salvation:
Where the gospel does “save” the believer, but this “deliverance” does not have eternal consequence. REALLY!
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On the other hand we have the Corinthian church and they were not the best examples of disciples having the boldness of coming to the Lord's table drunk and with some practicing seriously depraved sins.
My "judgment" is that they were an opposing model (for instance) to the Ephesian church to show us the extremes that the saved can find themselves.
However the scriptures says to the Corinthians:
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
As for my own personal practical case: my life was turned upside down when I was saved. I was in the military and word went around "What happened to Hank?" - "oh he got religion".
I stopped the drunken parties, threw out all my tobacco stuff, Stopped with the potty mouth, hungry for the word etc...- and no one told me I had to do these things, later I sought fellowship with others.
I would say I am a disciple - always seeking to please the Lord, always ready to learn, telling others of His glory, always acknowledging the remnant of sin still disturbing my life. A poor example however, I still have desires for worldly stuff. I have a Buick Park Avenue but I long for a Park Avenue Ultra (with a supercharged engine).
Fifty four years walking with the Lord, yes I've stumbled but he has always picked me up and set me back on the straight and narrow.
However I don't expect a big reward, eternal life with Him will do just fine.
HankD
My "judgment" is that they were an opposing model (for instance) to the Ephesian church to show us the extremes that the saved can find themselves.
However the scriptures says to the Corinthians:
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
As for my own personal practical case: my life was turned upside down when I was saved. I was in the military and word went around "What happened to Hank?" - "oh he got religion".
I stopped the drunken parties, threw out all my tobacco stuff, Stopped with the potty mouth, hungry for the word etc...- and no one told me I had to do these things, later I sought fellowship with others.
I would say I am a disciple - always seeking to please the Lord, always ready to learn, telling others of His glory, always acknowledging the remnant of sin still disturbing my life. A poor example however, I still have desires for worldly stuff. I have a Buick Park Avenue but I long for a Park Avenue Ultra (with a supercharged engine).
Fifty four years walking with the Lord, yes I've stumbled but he has always picked me up and set me back on the straight and narrow.
However I don't expect a big reward, eternal life with Him will do just fine.
HankD
all right But a Buick??? LOL
Don't forget I'm from another generation. And yes, when I was boy I got my first glimpse of a 1952 Buick Roadmaster at the General Motors Motorama and it was love at first sight.
It is a definite problem area in my life - my wife is jealous of my car, I don't know what she will do if I get a Park Avenue Ultra.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=1952+buick
HankD
Not knowing how to use the quote function?
Nope... not caringNot knowing how to use the quote function?
I also had a great fondness for the Oldsmobile Super 88 Rocket 88 or Oldsmobile 98.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=1952+oldsmobile
Oops, I've gone off subject.
HankD
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=1952+oldsmobile
Oops, I've gone off subject.
HankD
When I was still a young man driving ridiculously fast cars my wife did not like driving my Chevelle Heavy Chevy 454 4 speed. So I bought her an Oldsmobile Delta Royale. It was a huge boat but she loved it. 9 years later (I had a new Chevelle SS by then) I traded it on an Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Brougham. I had to literally take the Delta Royal away from her. She didn't want to part with it. But she ended up likeing the Cutlass just as much. It had the Limited interior. Royal blue crushed velvet upholstery.
Both were nice cars, but I switched to Lincoln Towncars in the early 1990s. Can't beat them. Not sure what I will do now that Lincoln no longer makes the Towncar. Our present iteration has 140,000 miles on it so I am looking around for a replacement. So far the new Cadillac CT6 looks the best but I am not completely satisfied with the available engines. It is a full size car but the biggest engine available this year is a 3.6 liter V-6. But the dealer tells me the 2017 model will have a smaller variant of the 6.2 liter (380 CI) V-8 in the Escalade. I will check that one out in October.
Both were nice cars, but I switched to Lincoln Towncars in the early 1990s. Can't beat them. Not sure what I will do now that Lincoln no longer makes the Towncar. Our present iteration has 140,000 miles on it so I am looking around for a replacement. So far the new Cadillac CT6 looks the best but I am not completely satisfied with the available engines. It is a full size car but the biggest engine available this year is a 3.6 liter V-6. But the dealer tells me the 2017 model will have a smaller variant of the 6.2 liter (380 CI) V-8 in the Escalade. I will check that one out in October.
When I was still a young man driving ridiculously fast cars my wife did not like driving my Chevelle Heavy Chevy 454 4 speed. So I bought her an Oldsmobile Delta Royale. It was a huge boat but she loved it. 9 years later (I had a new Chevelle SS by then) I traded it on an Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Brougham. I had to literally take the Delta Royal away from her. She didn't want to part with it. But she ended up likeing the Cutlass just as much. It had the Limited interior. Royal blue crushed velvet upholstery.
Both were nice cars, but I switched to Lincoln Towncars in the early 1990s. Can't beat them. Not sure what I will do now that Lincoln no longer makes the Towncar. Our present iteration has 140,000 miles on it so I am looking around for a replacement. So far the new Cadillac CT6 looks the best but I am not completely satisfied with the available engines. It is a full size car but the biggest engine available this year is a 3.6 liter V-6. But the dealer tells me the 2017 model will have a smaller variant of the 6.2 liter (380 CI) V-8 in the Escalade. I will check that one out in October.
Great cars! If I were now ever to go over to Ford products (I did own a Thunderbird once) I would like to find a good Lincoln Town Car or a Ford LTD Crown Vic.
OK EWF I realize we have made a complete departure from the O/P but this is really important stuff!
HankD