I have to know. What changed Billy's mind (Graham)

[HungryInherit]

Now, I think all of us know that back in the 60s (I think) and even recently Dr. Graham has stated that the only path to eternal life isn't through Jesus Christ. My question is what exactly made him come to this conclusion? I know people on this forum have wondered, so maybe someone knows. I reall think he beloved that and he does it say it just to PC or because someone in his camp wants him too.

 

[Bronconagurski]

Now, I think all of us know that back in the 60s (I think) and even recently Dr. Graham has stated that the only path to eternal life isn't through Jesus Christ. My question is what exactly made him come to this conclusion? I know people on this forum have wondered, so maybe someone knows. I reall think he beloved that and he does it say it just to PC or because someone in his camp wants him too.

I would love to see an exact quote on what Dr. Graham said before I comment. Do you have a link?

 

[saturneptune]

Yes, I would like to see a link also. Dr. Graham is one of the few electronic pastors I had respect for, in addition to D. James Kennedy. If it is true, that would be a great disappointment. Maybe his mind is not what it used to be. Compare clowns like Ernest Angley (come out evil spirit, say baby) and his antics to a Billy Graham crusade.

 

[12strings]

Unfortunately, their have been several documented and recorded statements of his, spanning decades that essentially say the same thing...

In Addition to his interview with Robert Schuller:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxlXy6bLH0

They (the heathen) may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven" (Billy Graham, Straightway, September, 1997. The entire article may be received from the author upon request, http://www.foundations.edu/online_material/straightway/1997/vol25_no9.htm).

“I used to think that pagans in far-off countries were lost--were going to hell--if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I no longer believe that. ... I believe there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God--through nature, for instance--and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying yes to God.” (Billy Graham, McCall’s Magazine, 1978)

 

[HungryInherit]

1997 interview with Robert Schuller on the Hour Of Power tv ministry. Maybe I'm mistaken about the same views he had in the 60s, but I could have swore I saw that somewhere. Here's the transcript, pasted from somewhere else.
Schuller: Tell me. What do you think is the future of Christianity?

Graham: Well, Christianity and being a true believer, you know I think there is the body of Christ, which comes from all the Christian groups around the world, or outside the Christian groups, I think everybody that loves Christ or knows Christ whether they are conscious of it or not they are members of the body of Christ. And I don´t think that we are going to see a great sweeping revival that is going to turn the world to Christ at anytime. I think the apostle James answered that in the first council of Jerusalem when he said that God´s purpose of this age is to call out a people for His name. And that´s what God is doing today; He´s calling the world for His name. Whether they come from the Muslim world or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, the non-believing world, they are members of the body of Christ because they have been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their heart that they need something that they don´t have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I believe that they are saved, and that they are going to be with us in Heaven.

Schuller: What I hear you saying is that it´s possible for Jesus Christ to come into a human heart and soul and life, even if they´ve been born in darkness and have never had an exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what your saying?

Graham: Yes it is. Because I believe that. I´ve met people in various parts of the world, in Tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible, or never heard a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they believed in their heart that there was a God and they tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived"¦

Schuller: (interrupting) Fantastic! I´m so glad to hear you say that. There is a wideness in God´s mercy.

Graham: There is. There definetly is.

 

[HungryInherit]

Thank you 12Strings. I was off on my time, but hard to believe almost 40 years ago, one of the most celebrated evangelicals said that. I really really want to know exactly whom, or what changed his mind.

 

[Bronconagurski]

I am not a Southern Baptist, so I ask this respectfully:

Is this a growing phenomena in some SB circles? The reason I ask is that the HCSB is seen sometimes as a product of Southern Baptists. I have a copy and enjoy reading from it, but I did find this article:

Is Jesus the Only Way?
Robert M. Bowman, Jr.
Is faith in Jesus Christ the only way of salvation—the only way to gain eternal life? In thinking about this question, here are some fixed biblical teachings to keep in mind:
Not everyone will be saved. Some people will not make it to heaven (Mt 7:13-14; 25:41,46; 2Th 1:6-9; Heb 10:26-31; Rev 20:10-15).
People will be judged by their works. God does not condemn people who never heard of Jesus because they failed to believe in Him. Rather, God judges all people based on their works (Ps 62:12; Mt 16:27; Rm 2:6; Rev 2:23; 20:13). People who trust in Jesus are mercifully saved from God's just judgment by Jesus' death on their behalf.
None of us can be saved by doing good works. "For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law... For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Rm 3:20,23). Two important conclusions follow. First, God is not obliged to save anyone, for no sinner deserves eternal life. Second, everyone needs a Savior.
Jesus is the only Savior available. Only Jesus died to save us from our sins (Mt 1:21; 1Co 15:3; 1Tim 1:15; 2Tim 1:9-10). That is why Jesus is "the Savior of the world" (Jn 4:42; see 12:47; 1Jn 4:14). Jesus claimed to be the only way: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (Jn 14:6). Peter agreed: "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people and we must be saved by it" (Ac 4:12).
Those who reject Jesus will be lost. Whatever may be said about those who have never heard the gospel, those who have heard and rejected it are in trouble. Jesus warned that those who reject Him are rejecting the Father (Lk 10:16; Jn 12:48). People who know that Christ died for them but refuse to follow Him face a terrifying judgment (Heb 10:26-27).
Does all this mean that no one who has not heard of Jesus can be saved? Not quite. We know that Old Testament believers were saved by trusting in God's mercy, even though they lived before Jesus came (Rm 4:1-7; Heb 11:4-32). The unborn, infants, young children, and people whose mental development is impaired are not capable of discerning good from evil or making moral choices (Isa 7:15-16; Rm 9:11). We may presume that God does not condemn these souls even though they do not consciously choose to follow Jesus. Apart from these exceptions, it is clear that Jesus' command to take the gospel to all nations (Mt 28:19-20; Lk 24:47) assumes that people who do not know Christ as Savior are in spiritual darkness and need to hear and embrace the gospel (Ac 26:18; Eph 2:12). Every Christian should have a sense of urgency that all people everywhere need Jesus Christ as their Savior.
HCSB Study Bible.

 

[salzer mtn]

As i get older i often wonder before i die which will start going first, my mind or my body. If my mind goes first i pray the Lord he would keep me from saying something like Billy Graham did, which he wouldn't have said in his youth.

 

[saturneptune]

As i get older i often wonder before i die which will start going first, my mind or my body. If my mind goes first i pray the Lord he would keep me from saying something like Billy Graham did, which he wouldn't have said in his youth.

LOL, I have always wondered what our reaction would be if, after we die, we find ourselves in front of a large curtain. The curtain opens slowly and there sits a large Buddah. All I could say is "oh noooooooo...."

On the serious side, there does seem to be something to these comments about Graham, and it greatly saddens me. People like Ernest Angely, Robert Tilton, Jimmy Swaggert, the Bakers, etc were always nothing but circus acts to me, but I always respected Billy Graham. As I said in the above post, D James Kennedy was the only other one I respected as much.

 

[12strings]

As i get older i often wonder before i die which will start going first, my mind or my body. If my mind goes first i pray the Lord he would keep me from saying something like Billy Graham did, which he wouldn't have said in his youth.

That's just the problem, he did say these things when he was younger:

“I used to think that pagans in far-off countries were lost--were going to hell--if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I no longer believe that. ... I believe there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God--through nature, for instance--and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying yes to God.” (Billy Graham, McCall’s Magazine, 1978)

Billy Graham also has a long history of partnering with roman Catholics in his Crusades. At best, we must admit that BG has, for years, exercised little-to-no discernment in very important matters.

 

[quantumfaith]

I "think" but not knowing Mr. Graham, is that he is expressing something he "does not know", he is expressing the sentiment that we simply CANNOT know many unfathomable things about our God and How our God operates. I think his position is one that reveals both his humanity and his compassion.

Is there anywhere, in link form etc, where he provides any type of "defense" for his position on this. I too, and have for most of my life as a believer, had and westled with the issue of the persons who were never exposed to the message of the gospel.

Let the castigation begin.

 

[SovereignMercy]

I worked for BGEA from 1996-2003. I managed the bookstore and traveled to many "crusades", was sent to NYC for the 9/11 relief effort. The bookstore manager before me was gay, sold a book implying that John the Apostle and Jesus were gay, because he leaned on Jesus' breast. Several Catholic, gay and other employees with very unbiblical and strange beliefs. I viewed it as secular employment. I sold what I wanted in the bookstore and shared the gospel wherever I had the opportunity. Even preached in a Methodist Church while at a crusade on Isaiah 46 on the gods you carry vs. the God who carries you. The pastor told me afterwards that we needed more sermons on our security in Christ and sent a letter to the association in support of me. There were several sound people working there at the time, but Franklin saw to it that we all left one way or the other. Billy was always a people pleaser and I will say very gracious to his employees unlike his son. There is a Time/Life pictorial biography of Pope John Paul that Billy wrote the forward to. He says he knew few christians as committed as the Pope. I think he went out from us because he was not of us.

 

[Aaron]

Now, I think all of us know that back in the 60s (I think) and even recently Dr. Graham has stated that the only path to eternal life isn't through Jesus Christ. My question is what exactly made him come to this conclusion? I know people on this forum have wondered, so maybe someone knows. I reall think he beloved that and he does it say it just to PC or because someone in his camp wants him too.

Judging from what I've seen in this thread, Graham's sentiment is simply the natural conclusion of noncalvinist doctrine.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Unfortunately, their have been several documented and recorded statements of his, spanning decades that essentially say the same thing...

In Addition to his interview with Robert Schuller:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxlXy6bLH0

I don't see anything wrong with this. In fact, I agree with it.

Do people really believe that all the millions/billions who have lived since the beginning of time and never heard of Jesus will go to hell? From my studies, I can tell you that John Wesley believed like Billy Graham, and a lot of others in the past did, too, and I'm talking about orthodox, conservative Christians.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I "think" but not knowing Mr. Graham, is that he is expressing something he "does not know", he is expressing the sentiment that we simply CANNOT know many unfathomable things about our God and How our God operates. I think his position is one that reveals both his humanity and his compassion.

Is there anywhere, in link form etc, where he provides any type of "defense" for his position on this. I too, and have for most of my life as a believer, had and westled with the issue of the persons who were never exposed to the message of the gospel.

Let the castigation begin.

:thumbsup:

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Thank you 12Strings. I was off on my time, but hard to believe almost 40 years ago, one of the most celebrated evangelicals said that. I really really want to know exactly whom, or what changed his mind.

How about God?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Is this a growing phenomena in some SB circles? The reason I ask is that the HCSB is seen sometimes as a product of Southern Baptists. I have a copy and enjoy reading from it, but I did find this article:

Is Jesus the Only Way?
Robert M. Bowman, Jr.
Is faith in Jesus Christ the only way of salvation—the only way to gain eternal life? In thinking about this question, here are some fixed biblical teachings to keep in mind:
Not everyone will be saved. Some people will not make it to heaven (Mt 7:13-14; 25:41,46; 2Th 1:6-9; Heb 10:26-31; Rev 20:10-15).
People will be judged by their works. God does not condemn people who never heard of Jesus because they failed to believe in Him. Rather, God judges all people based on their works (Ps 62:12; Mt 16:27; Rm 2:6; Rev 2:23; 20:13). People who trust in Jesus are mercifully saved from God's just judgment by Jesus' death on their behalf.
None of us can be saved by doing good works. "For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law... For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Rm 3:20,23). Two important conclusions follow. First, God is not obliged to save anyone, for no sinner deserves eternal life. Second, everyone needs a Savior.
Jesus is the only Savior available. Only Jesus died to save us from our sins (Mt 1:21; 1Co 15:3; 1Tim 1:15; 2Tim 1:9-10). That is why Jesus is "the Savior of the world" (Jn 4:42; see 12:47; 1Jn 4:14). Jesus claimed to be the only way: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (Jn 14:6). Peter agreed: "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people and we must be saved by it" (Ac 4:12).
Those who reject Jesus will be lost. Whatever may be said about those who have never heard the gospel, those who have heard and rejected it are in trouble. Jesus warned that those who reject Him are rejecting the Father (Lk 10:16; Jn 12:48). People who know that Christ died for them but refuse to follow Him face a terrifying judgment (Heb 10:26-27).
Does all this mean that no one who has not heard of Jesus can be saved? Not quite. We know that Old Testament believers were saved by trusting in God's mercy, even though they lived before Jesus came (Rm 4:1-7; Heb 11:4-32). The unborn, infants, young children, and people whose mental development is impaired are not capable of discerning good from evil or making moral choices (Isa 7:15-16; Rm 9:11). We may presume that God does not condemn these souls even though they do not consciously choose to follow Jesus. Apart from these exceptions, it is clear that Jesus' command to take the gospel to all nations (Mt 28:19-20; Lk 24:47) assumes that people who do not know Christ as Savior are in spiritual darkness and need to hear and embrace the gospel (Ac 26:18; Eph 2:12). Every Christian should have a sense of urgency that all people everywhere need Jesus Christ as their Savior.
HCSB Study Bible.

I like this and agree with it. It is scriptural.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

That's just the problem, he did say these things when he was younger:

“I used to think that pagans in far-off countries were lost--were going to hell--if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I no longer believe that. ... I believe there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God--through nature, for instance--and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying yes to God.” (Billy Graham, McCall’s Magazine, 1978)

Billy Graham also has a long history of partnering with roman Catholics in his Crusades. At best, we must admit that BG has, for years, exercised little-to-no discernment in very important matters.

I don't admit that. Maybe the opposite is true: His discernment has moved him away form narrow-minded religious bigotry.

 

[Bronconagurski]

I don't admit that. Maybe the opposite is true: His discernment has moved him away form narrow-minded religious bigotry.

I don't know, I think he is walking on a slippery slope. I have heard many opinions, but I haven't seen one scripture backing them up. In fact, I see the opposite from Jesus. I am the way, says Jesus, no man comes to the Father but by me. That is pretty straightforward, so I prefer to believe Jesus over man's opinion. If not, then why be a Christian at all? Believe in any God you want and just be sincere and God will overlook your idolatry. I don't thinks so.

 

[blackbird]

I don't see anything wrong with this. In fact, I agree with it.

Do people really believe that all the millions/billions who have lived since the beginning of time and never heard of Jesus will go to hell?

Yes, there ARE people who REALLY believe that all the millions/billions who have lived since the beginning of time and never heard of Jesus will go to hell-----namely ME!!! And I seriously doubt I have the only horse in the race!!!!:saint::saint::type: