Featured I know this horse is dead as dead can be....

John 20:30, that Jesus "did many other signs" is not a "fill in the blank" verse. Mormons can say this means He went to America and gave the natives a different way.

As far as the "debt" to the Law, yes...this was canceled (not "paid by Jesus instead of us paying it"). You are again adding to Scripture. Jesus fulfilled the Law...nailed it to the cross. No condemnation.

 

I have not dismissed the passages you have provided. I dismissed what you have added to those passages.

I once held your theory (actually, for most of my Christian life). I am not sure why you believe my position is "weird", but I suppose I woukd have when I held your view as well.

You are wrong that I am pushing doctrine few hold. The vast majority of Christians throughout history held-holds my view insofar as we have discussed. The only exceptions are RCC doctrine and the Reformed RCC doctrine.

Within my view there are disagreements in interpretations and focus. Certainly there are differences in application (traditional Anabaptist doctrine, for example). BUT it is the majority Christian view. That it sounds so odd to you is a bit telling.

Just set aside your tradition and read Scripture, ar least once, for what is actually writen.

 

I absolutely agree with that passage.

 

I do not understand what is so difficult for you to understand (even if you disagree with) my position.

I never once said a proclamation of faith makes people clean. That is about as silly as saying having another person suffer your punishment makes you clean.

The law is clear. People cannot be "made clean". Scripture is clear. The unrighteous dies and is re-created. Those born of the Spirit are clean because they are reborn (new creations, born again, born from above).


Here it is....again:

1. Mankind was in bondage to (slaves to) sin and death.

2. God sent His Son, the Word became flesh, shared our infirmity, bore our sins, became a curse for us.

3. The wicked caused Christ to suffer and die. This was in accordance with God's will (He was pleased to crush Him, God's predetermined plan).

4. God vindicated His Son (raised Him, gave Him a name above every name).

5. The flesh cannot please God. Man must be born again, made new creations.

6. God is just (man must die to the flesh, the "old man" must die, and be re-created) and the justifier of sinners (men ate born of the Spirit, they dhare in Christ's death and resurrection).

7. This is God's righteousness manifested apart from the law.

What you find confusing is the simplicity of Scripture (God does not conform to the wisdom of this world).

You are working off of Renaissance moral philosophy (arguments), ascribing to God a need to punish in order to be just. But God chose another way - rebirth. All flesh still dies, but we have a spiritual life in Christ Jesus.

 

Or Scripture is correct and it is the righteousness of God manifested apart from the law.

 

It is not Renaissance garbage. Were John Calvin not a student of humanistic moral philosophy (law) then you would not have the faith you mow have.

Your view is not expressed in Scripture. It is based on a judicial moral philosophy. You do not have to accept that fact, but your denial does not change it.

This is evidenced in the fact that your faith is not actually found in Scripture.

You think it is taught by the Biblw, but you can only compare it to what you choose to believe is taught (you cannot test it against God's Word).

There is a reason that the test of Scripture, God's Word without adding your philosophy and theories of how your philosophy is fulfilled, appears to you as nonsense. To you it is pure bullocks and poppy cock simply because Scripture does not meet the requirements of worldly wisdom.

God tells you how Christ fulfilled the law, how the debt of the law was canceled how man must be born anew. But like Nicodemus you stand bewildered, insisting God must acquiessce to your moral philosophy. So you allow yourself to be carried away by vain philosophy while the text of Scripture lay out right before your eyes. Seeing you do not see. Hearing you do not hear.

Just lay aside your traditions and philosophy. Just for a day. And read God's Word as if God were teaching you what is actually written in its text.

As far as my view, it is the Christian view that persevered throughout history. It is the overarching view of the Early Church up to this day. It is the majority view among believers. But you seem content to settle for reformed Roman Catholicism. Twice now you outright rejected Scripture in favor of philosophy. Why is that?