I used to be a Mormon: AMA

[taisto]

Why don't you tell me?

I don't deny there are some beliefs shared by both Mormons and Christians, but I'm not sure which group of Christians you want me to describe. I could tell you about the church I attend, but they aren't very prescriptive in their interpretation and are probably different from the church across the street. Pastor M in his sermons tends to say things like "Some think it means this, and some think it means that. The best I can tell you is this is what I think it means." Not of the absolute obedience variety, by any means.

How about you share your group of Christian.
Tell us who Jesus is to you and how the Jesus you now know is different from the Jesus you were taught about in the LDS.

I understand you are only 1.5 years removed from being shunned by your whole family and being in a Church family is a huge step. I am glad God is at work in moving you from death into life. I would like, however, to know of the Jesus who caused you to leave everything you grew up with. Who is that Jesus?

 

[iThinkStuff]

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

My last question (for now ) is a bit personal so please feel free not to answer.

I have friends who are Mormon, but do not know any who left Mormonism.

You said that you have a five generation of Mormonism on your mother's side. I understand why you left, and am grateful to God you left. But at the same time I know that it can be very hard leaving such a tradition. That takes a strength God provides, and I applaud your courage to act on that conviction.

Having left, how did this impact your relationships?

If not yet realized, I certainly hope God will use you and your experience to reach others, but I was wondering if your perspective a year and a half out.

Following up on that - you are in a unique position to inform Christians of the LDS. But at the same time, I wonder what advise you would give to Christians in supporting those who have left Mormonism.

And again, if this is too personal a question (it is a personal question rather than one related directly to Mormon doctrine) please do not feel any obligation to answer.

Thing about Mormons who leave Mormonism is that an awful lot of them flip the switch to straight atheist or agnostic. Going from "this is the one true church on the face of the earth and everyone else is deceived" to "oh snap I guess *I* was the one who was deceived... none of that was true" is a tough quantum leap. The default reaction is to reject all organized religion, if not God in general. The sense of betrayal by religious leaders is.... rather deep.

To the relationship question:

Friends: I had one friend who understood, mostly because he hasn't really attended the Mormon church with any degree of regularity in at least five years. What other friends I did have, they are now gone.

That being said, this is going to sound weird but Mormons are really really bad at making or staying friends with Mormons. Their friendships are largely determined by who is in their immediate congregation. As soon as that person moves or the boundaries of the congregation change, those friendships dry up and die surprisingly quickly. We had this happen numerous times with friends we thought were as close as one could be - as soon as the congregation boundaries changed, we never saw them again despite them living in the same house and the same distance away. It's a weird dynamic, and one I could discuss further.

Family: my youngest brother and I left about the same time. My sister is dangling, and therefore understands somewhat. My oldest brother is so die hard Mormon that he'll probably never change his views, but he's also not the shunning type so he was ok with it, relatively speaking. My parents less so. Mom cried, dad frowned, etc. They're not going to sever relations, but I'm a big disappointment to them.

I don't worry about extended family (over 100 cousins etc) because I don't interact with them much anyway.

Advice: if you happen to meet a Mormon exiting Mormonism, be very kind to them. You may not know it, but we've spent our entire lives being taught that members of other Christian churches literally hate us. The first time I stepped foot in another church I was afraid they would find out I used to be a Mormon and toss me out or ridicule me or whatever.

You have to realize, Mormons don't pray for other churches or other Christians - the only reason they might is to convert them from being Christians to becoming Mormons. Other than that, all Christians are "sorely misguided", "don't know the truth", and are missing out on all the awesomeness that is Mormonism. Meanwhile, "don't get too close to those Christians because they don't like us. Just look at how they kicked us out of Illinois and forced us to live in Utah!"

Also realize that ex-Mormons are sifting through the rubble of their faith and, if they're lucky, rebuilding everything they once knew. It's a very hard process and the programming is deep. Be patient with them.

 

[iThinkStuff]

What brethren don't seem to understand on here is you beat yourself up enough, there is no use in continuing the beating... You tore down one foundation and are building another... I believe what you stated and don't doubt it... We as Christian shouldn't think we know the thoughts of those that have come out of something, unless we too have been there... Thank you for the first hand knowledge... The only other question I have is this... You said you were married in a Mormon Temple, has your marriage been annulled?... You can elaborate if you wish?... Brother Glen

Oh, sorry - I missed this question.

Temple marriage is basically annulled when you renounce your membership. Matter of fact, so is your baptism, your priesthood, and any/all of the ordinances you did in the temple. When you renounce the Mormon church, you are in effect renouncing your own salvation and family (by their rules, anyway).

 

[JonC]

Thing about Mormons who leave Mormonism is that an awful lot of them flip the switch to straight atheist or agnostic. Going from "this is the one true church on the face of the earth and everyone else is deceived" to "oh snap I guess *I* was the one who was deceived... none of that was true" is a tough quantum leap. The default reaction is to reject all organized religion, if not God in general. The sense of betrayal by religious leaders is.... rather deep.

To the relationship question:

Friends: I had one friend who understood, mostly because he hasn't really attended the Mormon church with any degree of regularity in at least five years. What other friends I did have, they are now gone.

That being said, this is going to sound weird but Mormons are really really bad at making or staying friends with Mormons. Their friendships are largely determined by who is in their immediate congregation. As soon as that person moves or the boundaries of the congregation change, those friendships dry up and die surprisingly quickly. We had this happen numerous times with friends we thought were as close as one could be - as soon as the congregation boundaries changed, we never saw them again despite them living in the same house and the same distance away. It's a weird dynamic, and one I could discuss further.

Family: my youngest brother and I left about the same time. My sister is dangling, and therefore understands somewhat. My oldest brother is so die hard Mormon that he'll probably never change his views, but he's also not the shunning type so he was ok with it, relatively speaking. My parents less so. Mom cried, dad frowned, etc. They're not going to sever relations, but I'm a big disappointment to them.

I don't worry about extended family (over 100 cousins etc) because I don't interact with them much anyway.

Advice: if you happen to meet a Mormon exiting Mormonism, be very kind to them. You may not know it, but we've spent our entire lives being taught that members of other Christian churches literally hate us. The first time I stepped foot in another church I was afraid they would find out I used to be a Mormon and toss me out or ridicule me or whatever.

You have to realize, Mormons don't pray for other churches or other Christians - the only reason they might is to convert them from being Christians to becoming Mormons. Other than that, all Christians are "sorely misguided", "don't know the truth", and are missing out on all the awesomeness that is Mormonism. Meanwhile, "don't get too close to those Christians because they don't like us. Just look at how they kicked us out of Illinois and forced us to live in Utah!"

Also realize that ex-Mormons are sifting through the rubble of their faith and, if they're lucky, rebuilding everything they once knew. It's a very hard process and the programming is deep. Be patient with them.

Thank you for such a thoughtful and informative reply.

This may sound like an odd question, but I'm an odd guy -

In terms of Christian denominations are there specific ones, based on worship style or structure, that you find appealing because of past experience?

(As an example of what I'm getting at, I have friends who left the Roman Catholic Church because of doctrine and gravitated to the Episcopal Church because of similarities; I know others who left a Baptist denomination and joined a Church of God denomination as they identified with the worship styles).

I also know sever former Catholics who are now Baptist, so this may be a silly question now that I think of it.

 

[taisto]

Thing about Mormons who leave Mormonism is that an awful lot of them flip the switch to straight atheist or agnostic. Going from "this is the one true church on the face of the earth and everyone else is deceived" to "oh snap I guess *I* was the one who was deceived... none of that was true" is a tough quantum leap. The default reaction is to reject all organized religion, if not God in general. The sense of betrayal by religious leaders is.... rather deep.

To the relationship question:

Friends: I had one friend who understood, mostly because he hasn't really attended the Mormon church with any degree of regularity in at least five years. What other friends I did have, they are now gone.

That being said, this is going to sound weird but Mormons are really really bad at making or staying friends with Mormons. Their friendships are largely determined by who is in their immediate congregation. As soon as that person moves or the boundaries of the congregation change, those friendships dry up and die surprisingly quickly. We had this happen numerous times with friends we thought were as close as one could be - as soon as the congregation boundaries changed, we never saw them again despite them living in the same house and the same distance away. It's a weird dynamic, and one I could discuss further.

Family: my youngest brother and I left about the same time. My sister is dangling, and therefore understands somewhat. My oldest brother is so die hard Mormon that he'll probably never change his views, but he's also not the shunning type so he was ok with it, relatively speaking. My parents less so. Mom cried, dad frowned, etc. They're not going to sever relations, but I'm a big disappointment to them.

I don't worry about extended family (over 100 cousins etc) because I don't interact with them much anyway.

Advice: if you happen to meet a Mormon exiting Mormonism, be very kind to them. You may not know it, but we've spent our entire lives being taught that members of other Christian churches literally hate us. The first time I stepped foot in another church I was afraid they would find out I used to be a Mormon and toss me out or ridicule me or whatever.

You have to realize, Mormons don't pray for other churches or other Christians - the only reason they might is to convert them from being Christians to becoming Mormons. Other than that, all Christians are "sorely misguided", "don't know the truth", and are missing out on all the awesomeness that is Mormonism. Meanwhile, "don't get too close to those Christians because they don't like us. Just look at how they kicked us out of Illinois and forced us to live in Utah!"

Also realize that ex-Mormons are sifting through the rubble of their faith and, if they're lucky, rebuilding everything they once knew. It's a very hard process and the programming is deep. Be patient with them.

Have you ever read "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" by Nabeal Quereshi? You might find his story parallels yours. It's a great book.

 

[iThinkStuff]

Thank you for such a thoughtful and informative reply.

This may sound like an odd question, but I'm an odd guy -

In terms of Christian denominations are there specific ones, based on worship style or structure, that you find appealing because of past experience?

(As an example of what I'm getting at, I have friends who left the Roman Catholic Church because of doctrine and gravitated to the Episcopal Church because of similarities; I know others who left a Baptist denomination and joined a Church of God denomination as they identified with the worship styles).

I dipped my toe in several Christian churches before I "settled". Mormon Sunday worship is.... exceedingly dry. Same hymns for over 170 years, same sermons, same prayers, very rote. You seldom hear any instrument outside of a piano or organ. For most Mormons, that's comforting and change is scary so that's what they end up with.

For my part, the church I attend has a choir, acoustic guitar, bass player, oboe, clarinet, minor percussion, and assorted piano and organ. The hymns are a variation on traditional and modern. The weekly sermons are, "Let's open the Bible to where we left off last week and see what God has to tell us", followed by an hour of scriptural exposition. I love it, because I've never really been taught the Bible with any degree of fervor. When the Bible IS used in Mormon services, it's cherry-picked verses and a "this is why we're right" utility to it. Nothing salvific really discussed.

My brother attends a more Evangelical style church. Contemporary music, theme-based sermons, plenty of variety. On the other hand, he would have preferred a church more like the one I attend. He's just 3,000 miles away from me and his options are fairly limited.

I think the denominations ex-Mormons end up in is partly a function of "what feels familiar" and partly "can my kids find a home here". We're very family based, and raising kids with strong values is of the highest importance. Worship style is almost secondary to that. I would say a terciary factor is governance style. In Mormonism, you have no say over who leads, what they do with the money, what is taught, how it's taught, nothing. You either like it or you're some variation of an apostate. Having more say in how things are run and operated can be important to those who have never had any option other than authoritarian octogenarian whimsy.

 

[iThinkStuff]

Have you ever read "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" by Nabeal Quereshi? You might find his story parallels yours. It's a great book.

Sounds interesting. I will say I've picked up and read just about every book mentioned in any sermon or Sunday School so far. I feel like I have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[tyndale1946]

Sounds interesting. I will say I've picked up and read just about every book mentioned in any sermon or Sunday School so far. I feel like I have a lot of catching up to do.

Looks to me like you are baring your soul, which is good and cathartic and as Spurgeon says there are no perfect churches... All churches are hospitals for sinners... We should all adhere to that even to those who are on the fringes... The only one that can claim perfection is Jesus Christ... We all walk with feet of clay and none of us are above the others... Our prayers should be that those like yourself, will be delivered from the shackles that imprisoned their soul liberty... That they can see God like you do and be delivered from a lie... May you grow in the grace of God is my prayer... It is my honor to call you my brother in Christ... Brother Glen

 

[Van]

Until about a year and a half ago, I was a practicing Mormon (member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints). Since leaving, I now attend a local Baptist church whose chimes I could hear from my back porch since moving here four years ago.

Some background:

• Served a two year mission
• Married in the Mormon Temple
• Served in multiple leadership roles
• Taught Sunday school for a decade or so
• Left when I woke up to it being a pack of lies

Anywho, I've noticed in the church I attend now that there are a lot of misunderstandings about Mormons in general. In the spirit of sharing and helping folks understand the perspectives and paradigms of the LDS people, ask me anything!

Concerning who or what is the "Spirit of Christ" (Romans 8:9 and 1 Peter 1:11) what is the LDS perspective and paradigm.

 

[iThinkStuff]

Concerning who or what is the "Spirit of Christ" (Romans 8:9 and 1 Peter 1:11) what is the LDS perspective and paradigm.

The short version is they don't really have that same notion of the "Spirit of Christ". They prefer to ruminate on the idea of the "Holy Spirit", which comes in only two flavors:

1) The Spirit of Christ, sometimes referred to as "the light of Christ", which is a gift to all mankind that helps them identify truth, know right from wrong, serve as a kind of basic conscience. It's not the Holy Spirit proper, but a Holy Spirit-lite version that serves as a kind of flashlight for darkened, fallen mankind.

2) The Gift of the Holy Spirit, which ONLY Mormons can receive (sorry, Christians) and only through a Mormon Elder with the Melchizedek priesthood. This is like a semi-permanent version of the former, and comes after Baptism through the laying on of hands by said Elder. This is a kind of in-dwelling of a member of the godhead, basically, which is why it can only be bestowed by an Elder who got his priesthood going back through a line to Joseph Smith/Peter, James, and John/Christ Himself.

I'm curious what your take is on the Spirit of Christ. It's certainly not a concept I got a lot of exposure to, at least not in the Mormon paradigm.

 

[John of Japan]

Until about a year and a half ago, I was a practicing Mormon (member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints). Since leaving, I now attend a local Baptist church whose chimes I could hear from my back porch since moving here four years ago.

Some background:

• Served a two year mission
• Married in the Mormon Temple
• Served in multiple leadership roles
• Taught Sunday school for a decade or so
• Left when I woke up to it being a pack of lies

Anywho, I've noticed in the church I attend now that there are a lot of misunderstandings about Mormons in general. In the spirit of sharing and helping folks understand the perspectives and paradigms of the LDS people, ask me anything!

Praise the Lord that He brought you out! Keep up the good work of enlightening folks about the heresy.

Just one question for now: Where did you do your mission?

I recently read a couple of really great books about a Mormon family who left the cult. The son's book is Passport to Heaven, by Micah Wilder (Amazon.com). Micah got saved while on his mission when he targeted a Baptist pastor!

The mother, a former BYU prof, wrote Unveiling Grace, by Lynn Wilder (Amazon.com).

I was a missionary in Japan for 33 years. Some years ago 70 Japanese left the JW cult at once down in the Kansai region. One of them became a Baptist church planter and a friend of mine. So God is more powerful than any false religion!

 

[iThinkStuff]

Praise the Lord that He brought you out! Keep up the good work of enlightening folks about the heresy.

Just one question for now: Where did you do your mission?

I recently read a couple of really great books about a Mormon family who left the cult. The son's book is Passport to Heaven, by Micah Wilder (Amazon.com). Micah got saved while on his mission when he targeted a Baptist pastor!

The mother, a former BYU prof, wrote Unveiling Grace, by Lynn Wilder (Amazon.com).

I was a missionary in Japan for 33 years. Some years ago 70 Japanese left the JW cult at once down in the Kansai region. One of them became a Baptist church planter and a friend of mine. So God is more powerful than any false religion!

I served two years in what was called the Arizona, Tucson mission. Ironically I never served in Tucson; I spent most of my time in El Paso, TX (it was a big mission). I think they've since sliced that into several pieces. Great for learning spanish, but unfortunately doctrinal debates with other church clergy just entrenched me further.

I'm half certain that's sort of the intended result of missions for Mormons: you become inoculated to doctrinal disagreements. The idea that other churches "just don't like Mormons" or "are deceived" is reinforced by the constant battles. I'd say the number of Mormon missionaries who are converted out of Mormonism during their missions is very near .01%. The shame from not finishing a two year mission is bad enough; the shunning you'd get for changing your mind on the cult altogether would be darn near fatal.

Suffice it to say that I had doctrinal debates with Baptists, Evangelicals, Catholics, etc and it did next to nothing to sway me.

Also, forgot to mention I am a BYU graduate, as are all my siblings and my mother. My grandfather actually taught electrical engineering there back in his day.

 

[tyndale1946]

I served two years in what was called the Arizona, Tucson mission. Ironically I never served in Tucson; I spent most of my time in El Paso, TX (it was a big mission). I think they've since sliced that into several pieces. Great for learning spanish, but unfortunately doctrinal debates with other church clergy just entrenched me further.

I'm half certain that's sort of the intended result of missions for Mormons: you become inoculated to doctrinal disagreements. The idea that other churches "just don't like Mormons" or "are deceived" is reinforced by the constant battles. I'd say the number of Mormon missionaries who are converted out of Mormonism during their missions is very near .01%. The shame from not finishing a two year mission is bad enough; the shunning you'd get for changing your mind on the cult altogether would be darn near fatal.

Suffice it to say that I had doctrinal debates with Baptists, Evangelicals, Catholics, etc and it did next to nothing to sway me.

Also, forgot to mention I am a BYU graduate, as are all my siblings and my mother. My grandfather actually taught electrical engineering there back in his day.

This has always intrigued me so I will ask this question and either JOJ or you, when you were a Mormon can answer it, or both... Have either of you during your missions ever had contact with another missionary of another persuasion?... In pursuit of the, shall I say, candidate... Brother Glen

 

[iThinkStuff]

This has always intrigued me so I will ask this question and either JOJ or you, when you were a Mormon can answer it, or both... Have either of you during your missions ever had contact with another missionary of another persuasion?... In pursuit of the, shall I say, candidate... Brother Glen

Not sure I follow you entirely, but mostly we didn't spend a lot of time contacting missionaries of any persuasion. Although I've heard "Flirt to convert" is a thing, it's not a method I ever employed.

 

[John of Japan]

This has always intrigued me so I will ask this question and either JOJ or you, when you were a Mormon can answer it, or both... Have either of you during your missions ever had contact with another missionary of another persuasion?... In pursuit of the, shall I say, candidate... Brother Glen

I've had numerous encounters with Mormon missionaries. I once was approached by two "Elders" (a ridiculous title for young men) at an independent Baptist missionary conference. I'm not sure what they were doing there. Sometimes a young Mormon missionary will have the notion that they want to convert Baptists, as seen in the biography of Micah Wilder I mentioned above, so maybe that's what they were after.

I shocked the daylights out of them by saying I was a biblical apostle. Of course the big high mucky muck (pardon my language) of the Mormons is called an apostle, for reasons unclear to me. I believe the word "apostle" in the NT simply means a soul-winning, church planting missionary. Of course the 12 were special, but there were many others mentioned in the NT.

 

[tyndale1946]

Just a story about Mormons... When was a young man, my Dad who was a Baptist a Deacon and Church Clerk at our church was working on his car in the driveway... He had his head under the hood a was working on the engine... Out of the corner of our eyes we see two smartly dressed young men ride up on bicycles... Park it and come our way... The spokesman of the group said excuse sir: If you died tonight do you know where you will spend eternity?... My Dad thought a minute and I forgot what he said but told the spokesman, I'm not going to answer your question now but I have one for you... I don't recall the question but I do recall the reaction... The spokesman said well I don't know the answer and him and his buddy got all uncomfortable and he said but I need to go and get someone who can answer your question, I'm not that knowledgeable but I will bring some back who will address it... Dad said then you two run along and take care of it... As they bicycled away Dad turned to me and said we'll never see them again... And we never did!... Brother Glen

 

[kyredneck]

I now attend a local Baptist church

Ask @JonC , you may be allowed to post on the Baptist Forums. It's been done before.

 

[taisto]

Not sure I follow you entirely, but mostly we didn't spend a lot of time contacting missionaries of any persuasion. Although I've heard "Flirt to convert" is a thing, it's not a method I ever employed.

This is why I first asked you if you would do a comparison of the Jesus of Mormonism and the Jesus of Christianity. I want to discern your faith and know what you now believe about Jesus.

 

[kyredneck]

I want to discern your faith and know what you now believe about Jesus.

taisto the ‘fruit inspector’

 

[taisto]

taisto the ‘fruit inspector’

Yep. Just checkin to see how we're doing. Is Jesus digging around us and applying dung? Are we producing fruit? If not, John the Baptist has a word for us. Repent, for the axe is at the tree.
It is a good thing to check the flock lest a wolf be lurking among the sheep.
I'm sure @iThinkStuff is able to share the good news if given the chance. I like to hear the good news.