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Just wanting to know from our more 'deterministic' brethren in the room. When a homosexual (or someone of some other sinful alternative "lifestyle") attempts to justify his choices by saying, "I was born this way," can you truthfully disagree with them?
How so?
We were all born sinners.
Some of us with a propensity to become drunkards, others to have a bad temper, others to be homosexuals.
I have never embraced this- God would never let somebody be born a homosexual- business.
No I can't disagree with them. As Luke said we're all born sinners. I don't see what it has to do with determinism.
Question begging. We were all born, created to be good, nothing else can come from God unless you place responsibility for evil on Him, BUT, and I understand that it may be difficult for you to continue with a thought for more than short one sentence lines, BUT this shows we born with a free will to "become" a sinner.
Not saying you have a propensity "become" a "drunkard" or have a "bad temper" or God forbid! a "homosexual" (which for some reason you are about to separate out)-
...BUT exactly how do you "become" something/anything if God has foredetermined your nature (all things) before you were born?
You just verified that "only" good (don't forget "all things", this is another one of those long thoughts that brings you back to your first statement/premise) can come from God in creation and goes to prove that man must have choice, free human volition.
I hear you "saying" (or rather question begging, you need to look into this fallacy a little deeper , maybe a class on Basic Logic and Critical Thinking Skills would help :laughthat "we are all born sinners" on one hand and that "you don't embrace, at least as far as the homosexual aspect, that God lets one be a sinner" on the other hand? So God picks which sins are allowed? But He is not responsible for them "becoming" in any way? Interesting logic you have there Luke...
Could it be seen like this?
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Could one be called for the purpose of being born again of God that which is the only one who is good?
Found a good and informative article on Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelagius
Apparently, Pelagius may not have quite as much the "boogeyman" that he is made out to be.
Recent analysis of his thinking suggests that it was, in fact, highly orthodox, following in the tradition established by the early fathers and in keeping with the teaching of the church in both the East and the West. ... From what we are able to piece together from the few sources available... it seems that the Celtic monk held to an orthodox view of the prevenience of God's grace, and did not assert that individuals could achieve salvation purely by their own efforts...
Just wanting to know from our more 'deterministic' brethren in the room. When a homosexual (or someone of some other sinful alternative "lifestyle") attempts to justify his choices by saying, "I was born this way," can you truthfully disagree with them?
How so?