I will pretend for a minute that I an a Calvinist

[Mark_13]

Someone google, "religious affiliation identical twins." If there is significantly higher occurrence for identical twins sharing the same Christian profession then among non identical siblings that would tell us something.
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No, that wouldn't tell us anything - consider Jacob and Esau. Romans 9 says that God's sovereign choice transcends all environmental/genetic factors.

 

[annsni]

For instance, my church has a rescue mission that is open to everyone. Do Calvinists actually help people that they believe are not of the "elect"?

How would we know who is elect and who is not? It is not revealed to us so we work under the assumption that everyone who crosses our path may be elect. We let God sort them out from there.

Does the HS show you who to witness to, and who is not worth the time?

No one is ever not worth the time. God has told us to preach to ALL nations - thus all are worth the time.

These things really puzzle me about Calvinists, but you are the only one here that seems like you care.

That is sad because I believe EVERY believer should care for the unsaved.

Anyway, I have a lot on my plate right now at home with my wife being sick. I will be back in a day or two and debate this some more.

I am sorry about your wife. Is there a specific way we can pray for her?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

"What determined it?" is really just a game of question begging because it assumes that a deterministic explaination is required.

Excuse me but what "assumption" are you suggesting Tom is pointing to? He is telling you that something changes in the heart & souls of those who come to faith & there is no mystery about it. Neither you or I or Tom for that matter espouse Roman Catholic "Mystery" Beliefs LOL so lets dispense with that way of thinking. Brother, there is something concrete that causes the believer to come to Christ while the other doesn't get it.... & Tom's question is very clear & exacting, so again what is it?

 

[TCassidy]

Tom's question is very clear & exacting, so again what is it?

The question was addressed to seekingthetruth. Quite frankly I believe Skandelon is far too emotionally vested in his Arminianism to be teachable. His postings look to me like the Arminian version of Steven Avery discussing the KJV!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The question was addressed to seekingthetruth. Quite frankly I believe Skandelon is far too emotionally vested in his Arminianism to be teachable. His postings look to me like the Arminian version of Steven Avery discussing the KJV!

Yes Tom & that is why I did not step in and answer the question......rather I would have preferred that SeekingTheTruth could have been present to answer. I apologize if I interfered. It's a good question though!

 

[Grasshopper]

OK, first of all, I am the "elected", the 'prechosen" and the "special" one.

Secondly, all of you that love the Lord, but are not "elected" are just left out.

And mostly, why would I bother to even share the gospel with you if you have no chance of going to heaven?

Luke? Rick? Can you explain this false gospel that you preach?

John

Is this what the Baptist Board has become? Just let stupity run rampant, anything to get the hit count up?

Moderators you should be proud.

 

[preacher4truth]

"What determined it?" is really just a game of question begging because it assumes that a deterministic explaination is required.

Excuse me but what "assumption" are you suggesting Tom is pointing to? He is telling you that something changes in the heart & souls of those who come to faith & there is no mystery about it. Neither you or I or Tom for that matter espouse Roman Catholic "Mystery" Beliefs LOL so lets dispense with that way of thinking. Brother, there is something concrete that causes the believer to come to Christ while the other doesn't get it.... & Tom's question is very clear & exacting, so again what is it?

The old strawman that we present or hold to some "secret" or "mystery" having to take place. It's not even worth addressing yet another rabbit trail of his
as none of it truly represents what any of us believe. This from the guy who is presented fact after fact, proof after proof, and quote after quote, yet still denies what is clearly seen and what is clearly proven in presentation, only to have him do the dance of "name names, prove it again."

Several have been down this same old beaten path with him and have arrived at the same conclusions. It's a tired old song and dance bro, nothing new. :sleep:

Most of the threads he comes up with are purely subjective out of some personal situation he's experienced, or some "gotcha" moment that is readily dismantled. Dialoguing with him in these things is not a profitable engagement from this side.

- Peace

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Is this what the Baptist Board has become? Just let stupity run rampant, anything to get the hit count up?

Moderators you should be proud.

Oh brother Grasshopper...... it is but a distasteful thing to be witness to such tactless dialog however both outlandish & controversial commentary inevitably help to improve readership. That equates numbers that are attractive to advertisers. Alas, Christian brotherhood is taking a back seat ... to ca ching! :tear:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

:sleep:

The old strawman that we present or hold to some "secret" or "mystery" having to take place. It's not even worth addressing yet another rabbit trail of his
as none of it truly represents what any of us believe. This from the guy who is presented fact after fact, proof after proof, and quote after quote, yet still denies what is clearly seen and what is clearly proven in presentation, only to have him do the dance of "name names, prove it again."

Several have been down this same old beaten path with him and have arrived at the same conclusions. It's a tired old song and dance bro, nothing new. :sleep:

Most of the threads he comes up with are purely subjective out of some personal situation he's experienced, or some "gotcha" moment that is readily dismantled. Dialoguing with him in these things is not a profitable engagement from this side.

- Peace

I only & humbly seek to clarify my brother.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And lasty to address, " Why then do you preach, if you are already sure that all of the elect are going to be saved in Heaven?"

Simple answer: For the comfort and instruction of the Lord's people (Isa. 40: 1-2, 9; Eph.4: 11-16). :godisgood:

 

[Iconoclast]

For the same reason you are a Calvinist and another believer is not. Because that is your choice. What determines their choice? They do. An actor determines his actions. A chooser determines his choice. The mystery of this can be revealed in asking the same question about God. Why did he choose to save you and not someone else?

What you need to realize is that the drive to explain a truly free choice in the manner of asking, "What determined it?" is really just a game of question begging because it assumes that a deterministic explaination is required. Ciocchi, who debated Feinberg, put it this way: "the choice between available options is what free will is all about . . . and it is finally mysterious, beyond full explanation, for full explanations presuppose the very determinism the libertarian rejects" (Ciocchi, p. 94).

Or then again we have this................

7For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

A chooser determines his choice.

God in scripture chooses us. there is "no free will" ,,,just sinners who are made willing.

 

[Iconoclast]

DC

ALL of us are by natures lost sheep, its up to the lord to seek us out and to save us back!

No.....not all are sheep. Jesus has specific sheep that are given to Him read Ezkiel 34.Some are goats. All of the lost sheep will be found, because of the Covenant. Jn 10:27-30

 

[Skandelon]

Or then again we have this................

I love and agree with that verse. Thanks for posting it, but I'm not sure what it had to do what I actually wrote.

God in scripture chooses us. there is "no free will" ,,,just sinners who are made willing.

Well, we already all know that is your interpretation of the scripture, but thanks for telling us again.

 

[Skandelon]

there is something concrete that causes the believer to come to Christ while the other doesn't get it....

Faith comes by hearing, thus if they believe, God gets the credit for giving them what they needed to believe, but if they reject then its totally their fault because God gave them all they needed to respond and they chose to trade the truth in for a lie and suffer the consequence. Unbelievers are without excuse.

 

[Iconoclast]

I love and agree with that verse. Thanks for posting it, but I'm not sure what it had to do what I actually wrote.

Well... here is what you actually wrote

For the same reason you are a Calvinist and another believer is not. Because that is your choice. What determines their choice? They do.

so I posted 1cor4:7.....because Divine truth is revealed or given by God.
We have no cause or reason to boast...because the grace and repentance is given to us by God.The ability to serve also comes from God.
When we do good works..they are also ordained by God...we are but unprofitable servants....
No grounds of boasting as if we were better, or smarter, or any other false carnal reasoning. Salvation from start to finish is of the Lord.

Well, we already all know that is your interpretation of the scripture, but thanks for telling us again.

And we also know about your anti-calvinist Jihad...and your wounded Adam with free will, man centered ideas, potential salvation, potential atonement..... but yet you post it again..Do you think we did not notice?

 

[Skandelon]

so I posted 1cor4:7.....because Divine truth is revealed or given by God.

Well of course it is, do you think I would believe otherwise? But that doesn't mean man can't trade that truth in for lies and allow their hearts to grow defiled and be given over to their fleshly lusts, does it? Read Romans 1.

We have no cause or reason to boast...because the grace and repentance is given to us by God.

Amen.

And in addition, no one has cause to make excuses because God has provided everyone all they need to believe and be saved. No one can say, "I wasn't granted faith..." or "God didn't really love me..." or some other excuse like that.

The ability to serve also comes from God.

Amen! And their ability to rebel and suffer the consequences is likewise is granted by God...

When we do good works..they are also ordained by God...we are but unprofitable servants....
No grounds of boasting as if we were better, or smarter, or any other false carnal reasoning. Salvation from start to finish is of the Lord.

Amen. And rebellion from start to finish is of man. Wow, we are agreeing a lot tonight! :thumbsup:

And we also know about your anti-calvinist Jihad

Awww, and you were doing so well then you had to go and imply I'm like a muslim terrorist. Nice...back on the ignore list you go......drive safe.... :wavey:

 

[Iconoclast]

:laugh:
Awww, and you were doing so well then you had to go and imply I'm like a muslim terrorist. Nice...back on the ignore list you go......drive safe....


I know you will be peeking however....:laugh::laugh::wavey:I believe you secretly desire to believe in the DoG...so you will look!

 

[jbh28]

OK, first of all, I am the "elected", the 'prechosen" and the "special" one.

All who are saved are the elect. God chose to save you despite you sinful status. It wasn't because you were special or good or smart enough to choose Him.

Secondly, all of you that love the Lord, but are not "elected" are just left out.

Here's where you have a big misunderstanding of Calvinism. Election does not teach that people "love the Lord" but cannot be saved because they are not elected.

And mostly, why would I bother to even share the gospel with you if you have no chance of going to heaven?

Who doesn't have a chance? If you say the non elect. Can you tell us who the non elect are? And they have a "chance" but will reject Christ. Election isn't about keeping people out of heaven but out of hell. God isn't standing at the gate of heaven rejecting people coming to him.

Luke? Rick? Can you explain this [snip] that you preach?

John

This part was uncalled for. Let's keep this at a Christlike level.

 

[Luke2427]

OK, first of all, I am the "elected", the 'prechosen" and the "special" one.

Secondly, all of you that love the Lord, but are not "elected" are just left out.

And mostly, why would I bother to even share the gospel with you if you have no chance of going to heaven?

Luke? Rick? Can you explain this false gospel that you preach?

John

Once again you reveal the limitless depth of your ignorance as to what Calvinism is.

NO Calvinist sees people who "love the Lord" as people outside of God's elect.

No Arminian with half a semester of theology would think that Calvinists believe that.

This is why you really have no business doing this kind of thing.

All of us, including me, speak before we should and on occasion make comments from our alligator mouths that over ride our tadpole behinds- but you do it incessantly.

Take a theology class or go to a church where the pastor is qualified to teach you theology. Then come back and debate.

Until then, you have no business swimming in the deep end of this pool.

 

[kyredneck]

Is this what the Baptist Board has become? Just let stupity run rampant.......

I'm afraid so.