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If a person is on an Island, and all they find is John 3:16, will believing that save them?
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Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
If a person is on an Island, and all they find is John 3:16,
will believing that save them?
"That He Gave His Only Begotten Son", Teaches that there was a "Punishment for SIN".
Did God Work this CONVICTION in their heart
that they are a Law-breaker, against God's Eternal Moral Law?
...and deserve the Punishment for sin that Christ Suffered.
"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again,
he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3
Has God, "Opened his heart", the way God Did Lydia's
and everyone else that has ever been Saved?
That is, "The New Birth" that God Gives an "Open Heart",
to Believe THE GOSPEL,
of Jesus' Death, Burial, and Resurrection,
for their soul, personally,
"for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;
to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16
If they show themselves to be Repentant Believers in The Gospel,
they are the, "whosoever believeth in Him", John3:16b
and "The Elect",
John 3:21 ... he that doeth truth cometh to the light,
that his deeds may be made manifest,
that they are wrought in God."
If they are not, "The Elect", or if they are,
then, and He Doesn't Save them, now,
then: until it is GOD'S APPOINTED TIME,
they are among the ....
John 3:18b; "he that believeth not is condemned already
because he hath not believed in the name
of the only begotten Son of God.
19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.
20 "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,
neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."
...
There is enough in John 3:16 for The Holy Spirit to USE to Bring Conviction, Repentance, and Faith, which is The New Birth, after Having their heart OPENED to BELIEVE THE GOSPEL, of Jesus' Death, Burial, and Resurrection,
There is enough for The Holy Spirit to USE to Condemn.
"According to the Good Pleasure
which He Has Purposed in Himself" Ephesians 1:b.
16 "For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have everlasting life."
will believing that save them?
"That He Gave His Only Begotten Son", Teaches that there was a "Punishment for SIN".
Did God Work this CONVICTION in their heart
that they are a Law-breaker, against God's Eternal Moral Law?
...and deserve the Punishment for sin that Christ Suffered.
"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again,
he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3
Has God, "Opened his heart", the way God Did Lydia's
and everyone else that has ever been Saved?
That is, "The New Birth" that God Gives an "Open Heart",
to Believe THE GOSPEL,
of Jesus' Death, Burial, and Resurrection,
for their soul, personally,
"for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;
to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16
If they show themselves to be Repentant Believers in The Gospel,
they are the, "whosoever believeth in Him", John3:16b
and "The Elect",
John 3:21 ... he that doeth truth cometh to the light,
that his deeds may be made manifest,
that they are wrought in God."
If they are not, "The Elect", or if they are,
then, and He Doesn't Save them, now,
then: until it is GOD'S APPOINTED TIME,
they are among the ....
John 3:18b; "he that believeth not is condemned already
because he hath not believed in the name
of the only begotten Son of God.
19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.
20 "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,
neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."
...
There is enough in John 3:16 for The Holy Spirit to USE to Bring Conviction, Repentance, and Faith, which is The New Birth, after Having their heart OPENED to BELIEVE THE GOSPEL, of Jesus' Death, Burial, and Resurrection,
There is enough for The Holy Spirit to USE to Condemn.
"According to the Good Pleasure
which He Has Purposed in Himself" Ephesians 1:b.
16 "For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have everlasting life."
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
"what the bible says about God and how He desires all to be saved"
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
God does not force/drag people in to heaven as Austin C has said and as Calvinism would require by their "chosen before creation" and TULIP.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Right you have people saved and then God gives them faith, not biblical but it works for you.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well since God is the one that is the judge and He is the one that will look at mans works the question becomes "who do you think you are to question what God does"
Rom 2:5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 2:6 who "WILL RENDER TO EACH ONE ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS":
Rom 2:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
Rom 2:8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Sure looks like free will choice made there.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Austin C , any number of times.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Is there another way to become one of the elect? Faith/trust in God is the only way.
This question perfectly expresses a man-centered approach to salvation. It asks: What good works might we do to become a member of God's chosen family membership.
Since the Bible tells us that the adoption choice was made before the foundation of the world, the answer is that there is nothing we can do.
We are not the cause agents of membership into God's family. God is the cause agent. We are the gracious recipients of God's choice. We have faith, only because God graciously gave faith to us as an effective gift to His chosen children.
KenH
Well-Known Member
What is "GES"?
KenH
Well-Known Member
As far as work is concerned, if one is not in Christ, if one's sins are not imputed to Christ and Christ's righteousness is not imputed to him, and one has not been regenerated by the work of the Holy Spirit, then the only thing such a person has to plead before God is his filthy, imperfect works. In contrast, one who is in Christ is judged based on the work of Christ on behalf of God's elect.
As far as fear is concerned, for the Christian it is a matter of reverence toward God, as in not wanting to offend the One Who has delivered him from his sins and brought him into a right standing in Christ. Much like in human relationships where one would not want to offend or disappoint a beloved parent or spouse. Christians are not to live their lives like in the words of the old country song recorded by George Jones and Tammy Wynette:
"God's gonna get 'cha for that
God's gonna get 'cha for that
Every wrong thing that you do
God's gonna get 'cha for that"
In contrast, those outside of Christ have much to be concerned about and should live in fear - 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
I don't get that the "fear" is only reverence in Peter. The reason is he is telling those he defines as believers to conduct themselves with a fear in this life because God will judge their works.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well it looks like it is not just the bible that you read your theology into but also what other people write.
And I see that you do not really read what the bible says but rather what you want the bible to say. And so it continues, you deny what the scriptures say and then say others do not understand the bible. And why, it's because they don't see it the way you do.
You need to start trusting what the bible says, not what you think the bible says.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Well, I guess we will have to acknowledge we have a difference in belief and how we live.
The elect are in Christ. They are judged based on Him and His righteousness. And His righteousness is perfect.
Romans 3:21-28 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
The elect are in Christ. They are judged based on Him and His righteousness. And His righteousness is perfect.
Romans 3:21-28 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
I see we are on page 4, and I did not read past your opening post.
Scripture makes it clear that the content of our faith is not determinant, but rather whether God credits the person's faith as "righteous faith." Those credited receive His blessings, such as in John 3:16 they will have eternal life. Your translation, "believes in Him" renders "eis" as in but the word means into and conveys the idea of entry. Thus those who are believing into Him are those God credits with righteous faith and transfers them spiritually into Christ.
As far as the opportunity for salvation, again the people who say Christ died only for the elect do not believe everyone has the opportunity for salvation and eternal life. However I believe the majority view is Christ died as a ransom for all, therefore all humanity has the opportunity of believe "into" Him.
Now we know from Matthew 13 that superficial belief like soil #2 does not get credited by God. And we also know that if we do not make Christ our overriding priority, our "faith" will not be credited as righteous.
We know we must believe Christ is the Son of God (but exactly what that entails is in dispute) and that God raised Jesus bodily from the grave. We must believe in the One who sent Jesus as the Christ, the Messiah. From Abraham's example, we know we must trust in God's promises, and not be people "of little faith" who doubt their fulfillment.
Bottom line, if you are trying to figure out just what you need to do, you are trusting in your will and action, rather than just trusting that Christ is your savior.
It is not determined by the bogus minority view of falselogy.
Scripture makes it clear that the content of our faith is not determinant, but rather whether God credits the person's faith as "righteous faith." Those credited receive His blessings, such as in John 3:16 they will have eternal life. Your translation, "believes in Him" renders "eis" as in but the word means into and conveys the idea of entry. Thus those who are believing into Him are those God credits with righteous faith and transfers them spiritually into Christ.
As far as the opportunity for salvation, again the people who say Christ died only for the elect do not believe everyone has the opportunity for salvation and eternal life. However I believe the majority view is Christ died as a ransom for all, therefore all humanity has the opportunity of believe "into" Him.
Now we know from Matthew 13 that superficial belief like soil #2 does not get credited by God. And we also know that if we do not make Christ our overriding priority, our "faith" will not be credited as righteous.
We know we must believe Christ is the Son of God (but exactly what that entails is in dispute) and that God raised Jesus bodily from the grave. We must believe in the One who sent Jesus as the Christ, the Messiah. From Abraham's example, we know we must trust in God's promises, and not be people "of little faith" who doubt their fulfillment.
Bottom line, if you are trying to figure out just what you need to do, you are trusting in your will and action, rather than just trusting that Christ is your savior.
1 Peter 1:10-25 is written to the elect. This passage connects the God of Mt Sinai and the Old Covenant to us who are connected in the New Covenant. Just as God told Israel to be holy because YHWH is holy, so we are given the same command in the New Covenant to be holy. God has an expectation for His chosen, adopted, children. We are not to be like the world around us.
Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.
Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” And if you call on him as Father who judges impartially according to each one’s deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile, knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart, since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; for “All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, but the word of the Lord remains forever.” And this word is the good news that was preached to you.
Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.
Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” And if you call on him as Father who judges impartially according to each one’s deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile, knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart, since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; for “All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, but the word of the Lord remains forever.” And this word is the good news that was preached to you.
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