If certain "Baptists" don't believe the Bible is God's Holy Word,

Norm Abortion is Post its speciality, drunkeness would go to Joshua, I know he dissagrees but when you promote drinking as ok some will get the message and move on to drunkeness, fornication and adultury in my opinion and the Bible homosexuality is sin so the practice is fornication and if married or with someone who is then adultery. as to wide range ungodly beliefs look at the threads on virgin born and abortion atleast that is my view you have the right to yours.
Murph

 

Yes Murph, I do.

Holy. Sacred. Inspired. Authoritative. Probably even close to verbatim in many cases (particularly Jesus' teachings).

Literally the words of God - no.

Joshua

 

Xerglibmarliexngs Savings and Loan will give you Three Strawberries and a Grape / month in interest if you put them on deposit there.

Joshua

 

I have read a few of Post It's posts on abortion and his position is held by many people, including conservatives and liberals. While it is not my intention nor desire to enter this debate, making a case for murder for Post It's position, even by conservative scholars is typically considered untenable. As one moves from a conservative to fundamentalist perspective, I would suspect little support for his position. Moreover, I notice that Post It does not advocate abortion, but understands a necessity to engage in such a practice at times. Most would, I assume consider his position reasonable. In terms of Joshua, is it your assertion that he advocates drunkeness? Is it your position that if one is not generally opposed to drinking then one is generally in favor of drunkeness? How does that logically follow? And given that such a link would conceptually be your best argument, assuming it was logical, how do unrelated concepts like fornication, adultry, and homosexual behavior stem from: a) one generally allowing for drink, or b) one engaing in drink? I would think someone has a passel of 'splainin' to do. I will not quibble with you concerning homosexuality, for I can understand why you would assert the relationships that you have, however, responsible biblical scholarship, of which you are not likely to find agreement makes a plausible case for a commited homosexual relationship. It appears to me, in my brief membership on this board, that ungodly is typically criticism that is given for that which one disagrees. Hardly a rationale, even if the evaluation is actually correct. However, my larger point in this discussion remains -- when one seeks to marginalize a brother or sister in Christ or brothers and sisters in a greater sense: a) one, as a Christian, is grieving the Holy Spirit, and/or b) one ought to at least provide adequate support for such assertions to show cause why such assertions do not cause the Spirit grief, even if the behavior does. Wouldn't you consider such a fair statement? And if it is, either evidence needs to be forthcoming on what has been peviously stated or apologies are in order.

 

I have presented a scripture based argument before that supports homosexuality is not sinful when it is in the form of a committed relationship/marriage. Homosexuality, like heterosexuality can be sinful or not.

Abortion can be sinful or not. Marriage between man and wife can be sinful or not.

 

I have presented a scripture based argument before that supports homosexuality is not sinful when it is in the form of a committed relationship/marriage. Homosexuality, like heterosexuality can be sinful or not.

Abortion can be sinful or not. Marriage between man and wife can be sinful or not.</font>[/QUOTE]post it:

You are always wanting scriptures to support any given response so now I ask you for scriptural support for Homo parterners as Godly, and also about them getting married. Boy, I can just see Jesus telling them..hey, you guys are great with this Homo thing, I suggest that you get married and have children! Fact is, I think I will try it. Now can you see how vile that would be to Jesus? Doesnt't sound as right when you use Jesus, does it?

God Bless...........Alex

[ August 31, 2002, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]

 

You might begin with argumentation found in Walter Wink's, "Homosexuality and Christian Faith: Questions of Conscience for the Churches." Sorry to hear you are not feeling well.

 

Good suggestion Norm. Robin Scroggs' Homosexuality and the New Testament is also a good resource.

Joshua

 

I am afan of John Stott's take found in his "Decisive Issues Facing Christians Today". Very pastoral, while still upholding the truth of Scripture that homosexualacitivity is sinful, full stop.

 

What about the Bible?

 

What about the Bible?</font>[/QUOTE]TheOliveBranch, your concerns are noted. The arguments/presentations are rooted in scripture. You will find what you are looking for in these two treatments.

 

Nice try but what exactly do you know or could you know about Christ or salvation without the Bible. Whoever witnessed to you was either very old (2000 year range) or learned about the gospel from the Bible.[/QUOTE]
Actually, When I was 8 I felt like Jesus was telling me what to do, like he was inside my heart, asking me to let him into my life, and I accepted his call. You may discount this experience because it does not take place in scripture (this was 1977 after all). But I listened to him, and I told my parents and my pastor what had happened. I went down the aisle during an invitation hymn, and I professed my faith in Jesus, and told the congregation that I had asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins and to be my Lord and savior. I was baptized a few weeks later.
I know this personal experience is meaningless to folks who worship the bible, but it was a defining moment in my life.

 

Norm I fear I have wasted my time with a responce to you, what does the Word say ever learning and never coming to the knowledge of the truth. Sir I am amused by your request for an apology for either you or your associates, sadly none will be forthcoming from me. Except ofcourse for the apology I owe my Lord for bantering with you guys and not coming straitforward and saying the truth that the Spirit tells me. For a person to deny the truth so evident from God's Word there is no possible way that many of you are saved. I will Pray for you all.
Murph

 

I hate to break this news to you Murph, but there is no single copy of the original books of the Gospels, we have various "copies" of manuscripts and each is worded differently in many parts. Does this sound like a perfect book without errors? Which copy should we go by as being the exact words of God?

 

Brother, I think we will laugh about this foolishness in heaven. I will be there and I hope you will be there too.

We all need to pray for each other as well as listen to the voice of the Spirit who will teach us how to regard each other in Christian love and truth.

I have begun praying for many of you with whom I have had cross words and I hope you will pray for me as well.

 

Murph, of course you are the best judge of your time, and I am sorry time spent with me has been either distressful or wasteful or both. Perhaps all is not lost. Coming to the knowledge of truth is a lifelong pursuit for Christians who take seriously the task of righfully dividing the word of the Lord, and I make no claims at having exhausted truth, but what little I have found in comparsion to what may be gleaned (and we could quibble on questions of epistimology [perhaps another day ]) is setting me free, that is, when I actually allow it to do so. Actually, I don't have myself in mind for an apology, but to explain yet again why one is likely necessary may only prolong your distress, something for which I have no desire. That you would pray for me is appreciated, and do pray that I discern more properly what it means to be Christian and where the Spirit of God is leading or desires to lead the people of God. Acknowledgement that there are matters biblical and theological that you or I may not understand may temper your and my assessment of others and open relationships that might not otherwise exist, which quite possibly would go far in making the joy of the Lord more complete for our and God's sake. Might be helpful to keep in mind that God's zoo is great.

 

I have a similar salvation experience... except I came under conviction after hearing God's plan of salvation- from His Word, the Bible. Are you saying that somehow you were saved apart from the message of the Bible?

Just how long have you been beating your wife?

... I don't worship the Bible nor do any real fundamentalists. We worship the God of the Bible in obedience to the doctrines and ideals taught by the Bible. We accept it as the divinely inspired Word of God because that is what we believe it claims for itself.

Once again you presume that the belief in inerrancy and literal interpretation stands in contradiction to true worship of Christ- it doesn't. In fact, without taking the Word of God very seriously, it is impossible to properly worship and glorify God.