If God Decided To Save No One Would He Be Unjust?

[Calv1]

Sunday School 101, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", "All are born in Adam", "They are sinners from birth, telling lies".

If God never sent Christ, and never saved anyone, would you say He was bad? Is God just in sending sinners to Hell? Is that Justice? Why is salvation called "Mercy"? Mercy cannot be demanded, only given.

If God is just in sending sinners to Hell, and Mercy can't be demanded, then God could send every human to Hell, and we'd agree with Him that He was just, that we are sinners and deserve Hell.

So then why do Pelagians say we ALL DESERVE GRACE AND MERCY? It's a crazy argument, even if you ignore the bible's teaching of Predestination, then how about the opposite argument, that is at present, and throughout history BILLIONS were never given the means of salvation, HOW DOES THAT DIFFER?

Either way you agree that God ordains many to Hell, either the Biblical way of having Mercy on some, and not on others OR God requiring belief, yet not giving the means. In the OT did all nations have the means of salvation? Of course not, so why do you think He's changed in the new?

Just believe what is written, we are all sinners, Hell deserving (And if you don't believe that you are not a Christian, at least not of any orthodox faith), so as Hell deserving sinners, why does man think we all must get equal mercy? If a judge pardons one, does he then have to pardon all?

It's so sad that so many miss what God has actually done, He has looked at me and other Christians, sinful, God haters, no love for God, rebellions to His Kingdom, yet He sent His son to die for His sheep, THAT is amazing, I KNOW I deserve Hell, do you?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Sunday School 101, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", "All are born in Adam", "They are sinners from birth, telling lies".

If God never sent Christ, and never saved anyone, would you say He was bad? Is God just in sending sinners to Hell? Is that Justice? Why is salvation called "Mercy"? Mercy cannot be demanded, only given.

If God is just in sending sinners to Hell, and Mercy can't be demanded, then God could send every human to Hell, and we'd agree with Him that He was just, that we are sinners and deserve Hell.

So then why do Pelagians say we ALL DESERVE GRACE AND MERCY? It's a crazy argument, even if you ignore the bible's teaching of Predestination, then how about the opposite argument, that is at present, and throughout history BILLIONS were never given the means of salvation, HOW DOES THAT DIFFER?

Either way you agree that God ordains many to Hell, either the Biblical way of having Mercy on some, and not on others OR God requiring belief, yet not giving the means. In the OT did all nations have the means of salvation? Of course not, so why do you think He's changed in the new?

Just believe what is written, we are all sinners, Hell deserving (And if you don't believe that you are not a Christian, at least not of any orthodox faith), so as Hell deserving sinners, why does man think we all must get equal mercy? If a judge pardons one, does he then have to pardon all?

It's so sad that so many miss what God has actually done, He has looked at me and other Christians, sinful, God haters, no love for God, rebellions to His Kingdom, yet He sent His son to die for His sheep, THAT is amazing, I KNOW I deserve Hell, do you?

If God Decided To Save No One Would He Be Unjust?

No

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Correct, SG. But that wasn't what He decided. Now, how do we live with His decision?

If God Decided To Save No One Would He Be Unjust?

No

 

[SovereignGrace]

Correct, SG. But that wasn't what He decided. Now, how do we live with His decision?

God has chosen a multitude of unworthy sinners to redeem that should have been given the full thrust of His wrath. He has chosen the proclamation of gospel to save them, one unworthy sinner at a time. I live to witness to all I can. That's how I live with His decision.

 

[Revmitchell]

So then why do Pelagians say we ALL DESERVE GRACE AND MERCY?

Who are these pelagians and when did they say this?

 

[MennoSota]

Back to the OP...
Justice is required by rule of law. It is unloving and irresponsible for a judge to rule unjustly.
A pardon for crimes committed is unjust if there is no restitution for the crimes committed.
The judge is not obligated to pardon criminals. The judge is not evil if he only pardons some and not all criminals.
Who, on this board, argues that our Presidents should pardon all criminals and absolve them of their crimes? Would President Obama or President Trump be unloving if they only pardon a few and not all criminals?

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Sunday School 101, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", "All are born in Adam", "They are sinners from birth, telling lies".

If God never sent Christ, and never saved anyone, would you say He was bad? Is God just in sending sinners to Hell? Is that Justice? Why is salvation called "Mercy"? Mercy cannot be demanded, only given.

If God is just in sending sinners to Hell, and Mercy can't be demanded, then God could send every human to Hell, and we'd agree with Him that He was just, that we are sinners and deserve Hell.

So then why do Pelagians say we ALL DESERVE GRACE AND MERCY? It's a crazy argument, even if you ignore the bible's teaching of Predestination, then how about the opposite argument, that is at present, and throughout history BILLIONS were never given the means of salvation, HOW DOES THAT DIFFER?

Either way you agree that God ordains many to Hell, either the Biblical way of having Mercy on some, and not on others OR God requiring belief, yet not giving the means. In the OT did all nations have the means of salvation? Of course not, so why do you think He's changed in the new?

Just believe what is written, we are all sinners, Hell deserving (And if you don't believe that you are not a Christian, at least not of any orthodox faith), so as Hell deserving sinners, why does man think we all must get equal mercy? If a judge pardons one, does he then have to pardon all?

It's so sad that so many miss what God has actually done, He has looked at me and other Christians, sinful, God haters, no love for God, rebellions to His Kingdom, yet He sent His son to die for His sheep, THAT is amazing, I KNOW I deserve Hell, do you?

I personally believe that we all deserve Hell too. But this isn't about believing that "all deserve grace and mercy": it's about the very character of God Almighty. Forget the "what if's" : God knew from the very beginning that we would all be sinners so He ordained the sacrifice of His only begotten Son for the sins of every sinner who ever lived, even all those Old Testament nations you mentioned. How? Because the Bible says that "even His Godhead" can be clearly seen in the Creation"(paraphrased), so, sir, God provided His Son and His Holy Word to save ALL of mankind and His Glorious, perfect, and complete Grace will be revealed at the judgment when He has to cast all of the gainsayers, false prophets, murderers, adulterers, and every other Christ-rejecting sinner into Hell. It will be PROVED and REVEALED to be their own fault NOT because God "chose" them for damnation from the foundation of the world but because THEY rejected His Son. Do you deny the Holiness and Righteousness of God's boundless and perfect love manifested in the Perfect work of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary? It's about God's very character, my friend.

 

[TCassidy]

Correct, SG. But that wasn't what He decided. Now, how do we live with His decision?

Praise Him for his Mercy. It is not our right to question Him regarding who He saves and who He doesn't. Romans 9:21 Or hasn’t the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor?

 

[Yeshua1]

I personally believe that we all deserve Hell too. But this isn't about believing that "all deserve grace and mercy": it's about the very character of God Almighty. Forget the "what if's" : God knew from the very beginning that we would all be sinners so He ordained the sacrifice of His only begotten Son for the sins of every sinner who ever lived, even all those Old Testament nations you mentioned. How? Because the Bible says that "even His Godhead" can be clearly seen in the Creation"(paraphrased), so, sir, God provided His Son and His Holy Word to save ALL of mankind and His Glorious, perfect, and complete Grace will be revealed at the judgment when He has to cast all of the gainsayers, false prophets, murderers, adulterers, and every other Christ-rejecting sinner into Hell. It will be PROVED and REVEALED to be their own fault NOT because God "chose" them for damnation from the foundation of the world but because THEY rejected His Son. Do you deny the Holiness and Righteousness of God's boundless and perfect love manifested in the Perfect work of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary? It's about God's very character, my friend.

God is not into Universalism,, is He?

 

[SheepWhisperer]

God is not into Universalism,, is He?

Not according to my post you just read, He isn't. Did you read all of the post?

I personally believe that we all deserve Hell too. But this isn't about believing that "all deserve grace and mercy": it's about the very character of God Almighty. Forget the "what if's" : God knew from the very beginning that we would all be sinners so He ordained the sacrifice of His only begotten Son for the sins of every sinner who ever lived, even all those Old Testament nations you mentioned. How? Because the Bible says that "even His Godhead" can be clearly seen in the Creation"(paraphrased), so, sir, God provided His Son and His Holy Word to save ALL of mankind and His Glorious, perfect, and complete Grace will be revealed at the judgment when He has to cast all of the gainsayers, false prophets, murderers, adulterers, and every other Christ-rejecting sinner into Hell. It will be PROVED and REVEALED to be their own fault NOT because God "chose" them for damnation from the foundation of the world but because THEY rejected His Son. Do you deny the Holiness and Righteousness of God's boundless and perfect love manifested in the Perfect work of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary? It's about God's very character, my friend.

 

[MennoSota]

@ SheepWhisperer:
Would President Obama or President Trump be unloving if they only pardon a few and not all criminals?
Is God unloving if he only chooses to pardon a few sinners and not all sinners?

 

[Reynolds]

Sunday School 101, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", "All are born in Adam", "They are sinners from birth, telling lies".

If God never sent Christ, and never saved anyone, would you say He was bad? Is God just in sending sinners to Hell? Is that Justice? Why is salvation called "Mercy"? Mercy cannot be demanded, only given.

If God is just in sending sinners to Hell, and Mercy can't be demanded, then God could send every human to Hell, and we'd agree with Him that He was just, that we are sinners and deserve Hell.

So then why do Pelagians say we ALL DESERVE GRACE AND MERCY? It's a crazy argument, even if you ignore the bible's teaching of Predestination, then how about the opposite argument, that is at present, and throughout history BILLIONS were never given the means of salvation, HOW DOES THAT DIFFER?

Either way you agree that God ordains many to Hell, either the Biblical way of having Mercy on some, and not on others OR God requiring belief, yet not giving the means. In the OT did all nations have the means of salvation? Of course not, so why do you think He's changed in the new?

Just believe what is written, we are all sinners, Hell deserving (And if you don't believe that you are not a Christian, at least not of any orthodox faith), so as Hell deserving sinners, why does man think we all must get equal mercy? If a judge pardons one, does he then have to pardon all?

It's so sad that so many miss what God has actually done, He has looked at me and other Christians, sinful, God haters, no love for God, rebellions to His Kingdom, yet He sent His son to die for His sheep, THAT is amazing, I KNOW I deserve Hell, do you?

This is why Calvinism confuses me. You said God ordained people to Hell. I said the same thing and got lambasted by the resident Calvinists for saying it.

 

[MennoSota]

This is why Calvinism confuses me. You said God ordained people to Hell. I said the same thing and got lambasted by the resident Calvinists for saying it.

Indeed, you are confused. It's doubtful we can fix your confusion.

 

[TCassidy]

This is why Calvinism confuses me. You said God ordained people to Hell. I said the same thing and got lambasted by the resident Calvinists for saying it.

No. You were corrected regarding so-called "double predestination" which is nonsense.

But God did ordain that the wages of sin is death.

 

[Reynolds]

No. You were corrected regarding so-called "double predestination" which is nonsense.

But God did ordain that the wages of sin is death.

Explain to me the difference in ordaining someone to Hell and prrdestining someone to Hell. R.C. Sproul uses the term and says it is a legitimate term in Reformed theology.It is the negative result of a positive positive.

 

[Iconoclast]

This is why Calvinism confuses me. You said God ordained people to Hell. I said the same thing and got lambasted by the resident Calvinists for saying it.

It is not confusing at all....NOTHING can come to pass, unless it is ordained to come to pass...in other words if it happens, it was ordained to happen.

Not one molecule can move apart from God ordaining that it indeed moves regardless of the cause

 

[Reynolds]

It is not confusing at all....NOTHING can come to pass, unless it is ordained to come to pass...in other words if it happens, it was ordained to happen.

Not one molecule can move apart from God ordaining that it indeed moves regardless of the cause

Calvinism is not confusing? I would say John Macarthur is one of the most prominent Calvinists of today. He readily admits it confuses and troubles him.

I like Macarthur. He is quick to say "I don't know." Many Calvinists, on the other hand, suggest the person questioning them is stupid.

 

[Iconoclast]

Explain to me the difference in ordaining someone to Hell and prrdestining someone to Hell. R.C. Sproul uses the term and says it is a legitimate term in Reformed theology.It is the negative result of a positive positive.

Preterism is passing over persons.....when you go to the grocery store, your wife wants you to choose 5 navel oranges.
You look them over and you choose 5 from the group....you passed over dozens but for your own purposes you picked 5 and passed over the others.....You did not go in the store and throw all but 5 oranges in the dumpster....you simply passed them over.

The word predestination is only used of the elect...in scripture.
You are suggesting that there are persons who want to be saved, but God does not allow them because they will be forced into hell when they desired God and His Holiness....where do you get such an idea from scripture?

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvinism is not confusing? I would say John Macarthur is one of the most prominent Calvinists of today. He readily admits it confuses and troubles him.

I like Macarthur. He is quick to say "I don't know." Many Calvinists, on the other hand, suggest the person questioning them is stupid.

Pastors try and be diplomatic and not be offensive. The confession of faith urges caution;

7._____ The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.
( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )

For some people it takes time to get a handle on the bible , all 66 books, then some false ideas have to be weeded out, they might be in a church that teaches this is error, so it takes time for them to hear the truth, cast out the old and bring in the new

 

[SheepWhisperer]

@ SheepWhisperer:
Would President Obama or President Trump be unloving if they only pardon a few and not all criminals?
Is God unloving if he only chooses to pardon a few sinners and not all sinners?

My God IS love..........