If God is Not Sovereign, Then There is No Grace

[KenH]

According to your view God is a failure

Since the Bible teaches that God will bring to glory EVERY PERSON that He chose before the world began, your statement makes no sense. Everything is for God's purposes and glory, even those such as Pharoah and all of the wicked:

Romans 9:7
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself:
Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

 

[Silverhair]

Since the Bible teaches that God will bring to glory EVERY PERSON that He chose before the world began, your statement makes no sense. Everything is for God's purposes and glory, even those such as Pharoah and all of the wicked:

Romans 9:7
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself:
Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

God did not choose anyone prior to creation Ken. He chose the means of our salvation, Jesus Christ. When we are in Him we are saved not before.

Your false view does make God a failure as He on one hard wants all to be saved and then your view says He only wants to save some. So we either trust the word of God or we trust your calvinist teachers. I would suggest that we trust the word of God.

 

[KenH]

Your false view does make God a failure as He on one hard wants all to be saved

If God "wants" all people that ever live to be saved, then all people that ever live will be saved. The creature is not stronger than the Creator. The false god of your imagination is a failure, Silverhair.

So we either trust the word of God

I do trust God's Word. I don't trust the false teaching of human conditionalists, who think that salvation in some way, at some point, is conditioned on fallen, dead in trespasses and sin, man to ante up and finish the job that they think that Christ left unfinished.

When Christ said "It is finished" it was finished. Period!

God did not choose anyone prior to creation Ken.

The Bible teaches that God did.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

God placed all of those He chose before the world began, according to His own purpose and grace, into His Son for Him to be their Surety and to pay all of their sin debt.

 

[Silverhair]

If God "wants" all people that ever live to be saved, then all people that ever live will be saved. The creature is not stronger than the Creator. The false god of your imagination is a failure, Silverhair.


I do trust God's Word. I don't trust the false teaching of human conditionalists, who think that salvation in some way, at some point, is conditioned on fallen, dead in trespasses and sin, man to ante up and finish the job that they think that Christ left unfinished.

When Christ said "It is finished" it was finished. Period!



The Bible teaches that God did.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

God placed all of those He chose before the world began, according to His own purpose and grace, into His Son for Him to be their Surety and to pay all of their sin debt.

Every time you post your calvinist views you just make your position worse.

Do you not have
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

in you r bible or do you just ignore them as they do not fit your theory?

Of course salvation is conditional Ken. If one does not believe then they will not be saved.
Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Yes it was finished, He was the propitiation for humanities sins. He had reconciled God.

But His death did not save anyone Ken it was the fact He was raised that allows for us to trust in the one that defeated death.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

You continue to misunderstand those verses Ken. You have listened to false teachers who told you that you were chosen before creation.

 

[Brightfame52]

Then you are in disagreement with the Holy Spirit BF. Not a good place to be.

1Ti 2:3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

But you have put yourself offside with scripture many times in your posts.

We have been down this road before and you as then refuse to trust the word of God.

Again to teach Christ died for all mankind is to teach a false gospel. He died exclusively for God's Elect and saved them.

 

[Brightfame52]

Claims such as above, lacking any reference to support from scripture, are a diversion from bible studied edification.

1 John 2:2 says Jesus is the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity. 2 Peter 2:1 tells us Jesus bought even those heading for destruction.
Thus Christ died to provide the means of reconciliation for "all humanity," as He died as a ransom for all.

Every verse rewritten by Calvinism demonstrates they actually believe they are sovereign, and God just makes suggestions.

Here are their rewrites. No lost person ever seeks God. A natural (not born anew) person cannot understand any of the things of God. God did not choose individuals through faith in the truth. Many of the lost did not seek the narrow door. People entering the kingdom could not be prevented from going in because of irresistible grace. Faith is according to works.

I could go on and on...

Don't matter what scriptures you post, you post them without understanding, and doing so promote a false gospel. Christ died exclusively for His Sheep