If I Could Lose My Salvation, I Would...

Reformed believer, The statement as he explains it is fine. Given in a context with a proper explanation, I have no problem with it. However, as a stand-alone statement it can be interpreted two ways, one of which is way off the mark.

So, to use it as a summary statement in a sermon, for instance, after a proper explanation, I have no problem. However, I wouldn't want to run the statement in isolation as, for instance, a bumper sticker on my car.

 

I edited my reply.

 

Duly noted. :thumbs:

 

Unconditional security salvation doctrine is the core within Baptist churches and colleges in America.

Early in my Christian life as Baptist. I was taught by baptist church, books, teachers on security salvation. I thought it is the truth and sound. Because baptists claim, "I am a Bible believer". I was attended KJV Onlyism church. Also, I noticed the word, 'fundamental', in my mind, they saying I am a strong foundation and firm base upon God's Word 100% with the right doctrine and sound.

I thought Independent Fundamental Baptist is a truly right church or religion in America today, because they claim, they did follow the Bible 100% with right doctrines.

Throughout years, the more things I learned from God's Words while I have been studying them. The more realized that I already seen enough there are too many errors within IFB's doctrines. I really so disappoint with IFB and SBC both.

Salvation doctrine is the most important in the Bible. Every Christians oight to understand salvation. Because we all will have our own future eternity destiny after we die. No one of us will escape from our destiny.

Religions are desire want to have eternal life. Many people do want to have eternal life.

Christ said, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." - John 8:32.

Many baptists agree with John 8:32.

Bible have everything for answers and it have the truth.

A rich man came to Christ, and he asked him, "Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" -Matt. 19:16; Mark 10:17; Luke 10:25; and Luke 18:18.

"I may have eternal life" is a very important question for person's future eternity destiny. This is a metter of salvation issue.

A rich man told Christ, he did keep the commandments in his youth life. Then, he said to Christ, what miss thing that he have? Christ told him, he have to give everything what he have, give them to poor and come to FOLLOW Him. The rich man was bitter and walked away from Christ. He refused surrender his life and his possession, and do not want to follow Christ. He have no faith in Christ. He was worry over his own things instead of trust in Christ.

Being follow Christ is require for obedience of salvation. It is conditional.

Now, I would like to discuss on John 10:27-29. Many baptists use this passage to support security salvation, that it tells us, no one, even Satan can take us out of Christ's hand, because we are already secured in Christ. It proved that, we cannot lose salvation, because we are already secure in Christ in his power.

John 10:28-29 is a beautiful passage of promise. I agree with it.

But, we have to look at verse 27 very important. Christ said, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they FOLLOW me:"

There are two important words of verse 27- 'hear' and 'follow'.

Hear means a person who listen God's Word, have to take them and believe them, then, they have to FOLLOW God's word, same as we listening God's Instruction, same as we listen Christ's sayings, we should follow Christ.

Being follow is conditional.

John 10:28-29 is a promise to us, that we are secure in Christ's hand, no one can take us away from Christ WHILE long as we are still FOLLOW Christ.

What IF suppose, we decide to stop follow Christ, then, He would loose us out of his hand.

Same with prodigal son of Luke 15:11-32. This passage teaching us, we all have freewill with decision. We are not God's robot. God doesn't force us to stay with him all the time. God allows us to make decision and choices. A young son of Luke 15:12- he wants to leave his father, same as we CAN leave Christ if we want to. Christ allows us to do. Once a young son leaves father, he becomes "lost" - Luke 15:32, same with John 10:27-29 telling us, if we stopped follow Christ, and want to leave Christ, then Christ would loose us out of his hand and then being lost.

Luke 15:11-32 teaching us, if suppose, a young son is remain in sins and never return back to his father at the end, then, he is remain lost and dead- that's PERIOD.

There are too many passages in the Bible mentioned on conditional salvation. We cannot afford to neglect them.

I am sure that many baptist pastors and college teachers are aware of passages like Luke 15:11-32, etc. but, I do not understand why they seem keep on twisting God's word in their teaching because of what they had learned from their men's teaching in tradition - Colossians 2:8. Why they keep on twist God's word? I guess probably they seem dislike what the truths saying. Huh?

I do have booklets of John Rice, Curtis Hutson on salvation. I do not understand why they were twist God's Word in their own interpreting?

Anyway, I want to discuss on Eph. 1:13-14 about 'Sealed' .

Baptists often emphasis on Eph. 1:13-14 to prove that we are secured with the Holy Spirit, that we cannot lose our salvation long as we are remain sealed till rapture.

I understand what 'sealed' means.

But, I want to show you of Eph. 1:14 very important. Let's look at Eph. 1:14: "Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

Notice, it says, "WHICH is the earnest of our inheritance". What 'which' is speak of? Its context with verse 13, which speak of "sealed".

'Earnest' of verse 14 is very important word, that we need to understand. It means down payment.

For example, when you getting a car. You cannot afford to pay in full, for example 2008 new car worths about $15,000, that price is not the kind what we have the budget or afford to buy it. So, we have to discuss with the dealer, and bank too, to make agreement by make monthly payments. When you onced get a car. This car is not a 100% guaranteed already belong to you, it's yours. Because, you still owe to dealer or bank for 3 to 4 years. While in the midst of that time, when you fail to make payment. The bank will tell to towing company to take your car away. I had a bad experince one time while I was a student at bible college, I had heavy debts, I didn't pay to the bank for car. One day, a tow truck came to my car, and it took away. I LOST car! That was happened in 1996.

Onced the Holy Spirit sealed in youi, that doesn't mean that you are already guaranteed secured remain always saved all the way to death or rapture.

Look Eph 1:14 again, it says, "Which is the earnest of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

'Inheritance' is a picture of eternal life with Christ in New Jerusalem.

Also, notice important word, 'redemption' means to deliver.

There are few verses have refer with Eph. 1:14 of 'redemption'. In Luke 21:28 - "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up and lift up your heads, for YOUR REDEMPTION draweth nigh."

'Your redemption" is not speak of physical Jews shall be saved from killed them all - 'another "Holocaust". It speak of our SOULS.

In Romans 8:19-23 talking about second advent, that we are eager looking forward for the 'adoption' to wit(being namely or called) "The REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY."

This is speak of rapture.

In 1 Cor. 15:51-54 telling us, our body all shall be change into immortality, and put away incorruptible.

Pretribs emphasis on Titus 2:13 - "The blessed Hope" is pretribulation rapture

Do you understand what is "Hope" means? "The blessed hope' is not mean pretribulation rapture.

"Hope" means eternal life.

Look to Titus 1:2 says, "In hope of(what??) ETERNAL LIFE, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;"

Our hope is eternal life. Our hope is not look for "rapture". Our eager looking forward for our eternal life that shall be revealed at the coming of Christ.

Titus 3:7 - "That being justitifed by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of ETERNAL LIFE."

The blessed hope is not talking about "pretribulation rapture". It talks about our souls and body shall be deliver - redemption at coming of Christ.

Right now, we still have old nature and flesh. We are still in spiritual warfare daily since after we born again. We are saved by being sealed by the Holy Spirit when after we heard and believed the gospel. But, it doesn't mean that we are already guaranteed already saved at once.

I better stop for now, because this post is already long. So, I better make another post to be continue discuss on sealed and salvation.

To be Continued.....

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Deborah:

I am really curious about that last part of your statement "....but he still died".

what do you mean by that, please ?

 

No it isn't.......
How does one suppose they could loose their Salvation? Maybe because they have lost their faith, But it isn't our faith that saves us. We may loose our faith yet Christ does not ever loose faith and it's His faith that has saved us. If we are trully saved by Christ and our sins have been coverd by the righteousness of Christ. How is it we can loose what He saved us by?
We are kept by the power of God.
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

As long as your saved by Christ it would take an act of God to disown you.
MB

 

Why I Believe I Cannot, Ever, Lose My Eternal Salvation:

1. God knew about me from before the foundation of the world;
2. He wrote my name on His Book of Life, along with His other peoples, BEFORE the foundation of the world;
3. The Blood of the Lamb slain from BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of the world covered the sins of those whose names are in the Book of Life which names were written BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of the world;
4. The salvation plan for His people was mapped out BEFORE the foundation of the world;
5. The Blood of the Lamb slain at Calvary, here in time, covered the sins of His people BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER the cross;
6. God knows His works from beginning to end, therefore, nothing surprises Him, since He knows what is in man. It did not surprise Him when Adam sinned, it did not surprise Him when Abraham sinned, it did not surprise Him when Enoch sinned, it did not surprise Him when Moses sinned, it did not surprise Him when Rahab became a harlot, it did not surprise Him when Israel turned away from Him, NOTHING surprises Him, and He has His people well covered;
7. He loved us before we loved Him.

I know many will howl and say my theology is crazy and hyper-Calvinist, but all I have stated are Scriptural.

 

I have always been bothered by claims like this. Of "former" Christians we know, some of whom have become militant secularists, do you say that none of them were ever believers, when among some of them, certainly, there was every reason to think they were? It does not make sense people can go from unbeliever to believer, but not from believer to unbeliever, and this usual answer-- "They never were really saved in the first place"-- just brushes the whole thing off.

 

I like the wording in Romans 2...calling it a circumcision of the heart. Substitute uncircumcised / circumcised for unbeliever / believer in your post. Can one go from being uncircumcised to circumcised...and then back to uncircumcised again?

 

John 10:28-19 says,

28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. (NKJV)

Are you suggesting that any mere human is big enough, bad enough or strong enough to pry God's hand open, then Christ's? There is no more secure place in the world than the hand of the Father. If someone finds themselves out of the Father's hand, it can only be that they were not in the Father's hand to begin with.

Oh, and I like what webdog added while I was typing - that'll preach!!

 

Well, if they can do liver, kidney, and heart transplants, and undo certain procedures relating to the organ you're referring to.....

 

A transplant and an uncircumcision are two very different things.

 

Did they have the ability to do those things two thousand years ago when Paul penned Romans?

But assuming you are correct for a minute...it still takes a miraculous event to try to undo that procedure. In fact, it would not be undoing it at all...but adding something all together new procedure wise to reverse it.

 

I just don't know of any other way that it can be. Maybe my choice of words is not the greatest, I don't know.