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If I Could Lose My Salvation, I Would...
- Thread starter TCGreek
- Start date
Nevertheless, while "eternal security" is doctrine I believe, but do not "know it without doubt," there is a practical conclusion to be drawn therefrom... if there is no way one can lose one's salvation, then one cannot lose by believing one can lose it. Therefore, there is nothing to be gained by making a point of it. If a Christian is a true believer, but does think he can lose his salvation, and for that reason he gets up and goes to church when he wants to lie in bed all day, and for that reason he gives his money and help to those in need, and for that reason he doesn't steal from his employer when it would be easy to do so....... would you try to convince him he can't lose his salvation even if he did skip church, was stingy with his possessions, stole, et al? And why?
Alcott said:
Good stuff, Alcott,
1. But here's the issue: Are all who profess faith in Christ truly His? Were they saved to begin with? Is it possible that we have a lot of unsaved people going to church, giving their monies and so on?
2. While on the other hand, there are some who say that they are saved but their actions betray them.
3. I truly believe that a saved person would have a desire for God and the things of God.
I think it was Billy Graham who said that about 75% of average church attenders were lost - just playing church. I like Billy Graham, but I'm not convinced he's right. What if it is only 50%, or even 25% who are lost, but playing church. That's a whole lot of people.
Yes, I believe that their actions will eventually betray them. A lost person can't play the church game forever. Sooner or later, who they really are will be revealed.
Yes, I believe that their actions will eventually betray them. A lost person can't play the church game forever. Sooner or later, who they really are will be revealed.
webdog said:
1. Why, even Paul speaks of some who having the appearance godliness but denying its power (2 Tim 3:5). I believe it's the same way Donald Trump can leave $10, 000 tip on tip for a waitress, without being godly about it.
2. There are various reasons why the unsaved hang around the saved.
Pilgrimer
Member
Hello Webdog,
>Can one go from being uncircumcised to circumcised...and then back to uncircumcised again?
According to God's Law, yes . . .
"For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision." Romans 2:25
In Christ,
Deborah
>Can one go from being uncircumcised to circumcised...and then back to uncircumcised again?
According to God's Law, yes . . .
"For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision." Romans 2:25
In Christ,
Deborah
JustChristian
New Member
Tom Butler said:
The prodigal son decided to come home to his Father.
JustChristian
New Member
TCGreek said:
Do you have a Biblical reason why it IS true or just a hunch?
Pilgrimer said:
Deborah:
You can't take that literally. Paul is saying it's good to be a Jew(circumcision), but if you don't keep the law like a good Jew should, then you might as well be a Gentile (uncircumcision).
Think of someone saying he's a Christian, a believer, saved and heaven bound, yet lives like the devil, he might as well be an unbeliever, unsaved, hell-bound heathen.
Pilgrimer
Member
>You can't take that literally. Paul is saying it's good to be a Jew(circumcision), but if you don't keep the law like a good Jew should, then you might as well be a Gentile (uncircumcision) . . .
>Think of someone saying he's a Christian, a believer, saved and heaven bound, yet lives like the devil, he might as well be an unbeliever, unsaved, hell-bound heathen.
This isn't about people who claim to be Christians but aren't, any more than it's about people who claimed to be circumcised but weren't. Of course some one cannot lose something they never had. But the issue is can one have the seal of the covenant (Old or New) and yet through breaking that covenant . . . their "circumcision be made uncircumcision?"
In Christ,
Deborah
>Think of someone saying he's a Christian, a believer, saved and heaven bound, yet lives like the devil, he might as well be an unbeliever, unsaved, hell-bound heathen.
This isn't about people who claim to be Christians but aren't, any more than it's about people who claimed to be circumcised but weren't. Of course some one cannot lose something they never had. But the issue is can one have the seal of the covenant (Old or New) and yet through breaking that covenant . . . their "circumcision be made uncircumcision?"
In Christ,
Deborah
Pilgrimer
Member
>I didn't do anything for it; It was a gift.
You had to hear about the gift. And you had to believe in the gift. And at some point in your life you had to make a conscious decision to partake of the gift. And even now that you have received the gift, and have escaped the pollutions of the world through the gift, if you become again entangled in the pollutions of the world and overcome by them, your latter end will be worse with you than the beginning. For it had been better for you not to have known the gift, than, after having known it, to turn from what you were commanded to do. But it will happen to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." 2 Peter 2:20-22 paraphrased
There is one way a believer can lose his salvation . . . by throwing God's gift back in His face . . .
In Christ,
Deborah
You had to hear about the gift. And you had to believe in the gift. And at some point in your life you had to make a conscious decision to partake of the gift. And even now that you have received the gift, and have escaped the pollutions of the world through the gift, if you become again entangled in the pollutions of the world and overcome by them, your latter end will be worse with you than the beginning. For it had been better for you not to have known the gift, than, after having known it, to turn from what you were commanded to do. But it will happen to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." 2 Peter 2:20-22 paraphrased
There is one way a believer can lose his salvation . . . by throwing God's gift back in His face . . .
In Christ,
Deborah
Pilgrimer
Member
>You skipped the ones with Bible verses next to them.
That's because none of the verses cited address the question of whether or not a believer can stop believing.
>Are You trying to loose your salvation?. For being someone who is scared to loose it you sure are trying hard to prove you can instead of resting in God promises.
I'm trying hard to explain that you must rest in God's promises to be saved, and if the day ever comes that a Christian stops trusting in God to perform what He has promised . . . he will throw away his only hope of salvation.
Faith in the promises of God for salvation is not a one-time act of faith . . . it is a way of life.
"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him." Colossians 2:6
In Christ,
Deborah
That's because none of the verses cited address the question of whether or not a believer can stop believing.
>Are You trying to loose your salvation?. For being someone who is scared to loose it you sure are trying hard to prove you can instead of resting in God promises.
I'm trying hard to explain that you must rest in God's promises to be saved, and if the day ever comes that a Christian stops trusting in God to perform what He has promised . . . he will throw away his only hope of salvation.
Faith in the promises of God for salvation is not a one-time act of faith . . . it is a way of life.
"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him." Colossians 2:6
In Christ,
Deborah
Pilgrimer
Member
Hello PK,
>so faith and works (way of life) are the same?
Apparently you guys think so, but I don't.
Predestination and eternal security are two sides of the same bad coin. It is an extreme view which concludes that there is nothing that is required on the part of man for salvation, period, which I think has been abundantly demonstrated in this thread.
And yet the whole point of the Gospel is that salvation is a gift that is given to those who believe.
Let me frame the eternal security argument this way: I trusted Jesus 25 years ago to save me so my salvation is already accomplished and I don’t need to trust Jesus anymore.
Predestination would go this way: I don’t have to trust Jesus, my name has already been written in the Book of Life.
The above soteriology is a “grace without faith” salvation that frustrates the purposes of God: “For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . for without faith it is impossible to please God: for he that cometh to God must believe . . .” Ephesians 2:8, Hebrews 11:6
In Christ,
Deborah
>so faith and works (way of life) are the same?
Apparently you guys think so, but I don't.
Predestination and eternal security are two sides of the same bad coin. It is an extreme view which concludes that there is nothing that is required on the part of man for salvation, period, which I think has been abundantly demonstrated in this thread.
And yet the whole point of the Gospel is that salvation is a gift that is given to those who believe.
Let me frame the eternal security argument this way: I trusted Jesus 25 years ago to save me so my salvation is already accomplished and I don’t need to trust Jesus anymore.
Predestination would go this way: I don’t have to trust Jesus, my name has already been written in the Book of Life.
The above soteriology is a “grace without faith” salvation that frustrates the purposes of God: “For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . for without faith it is impossible to please God: for he that cometh to God must believe . . .” Ephesians 2:8, Hebrews 11:6
In Christ,
Deborah