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If you are not Reformed, you cannot believe in eternal security

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Calv1, Apr 27, 2017.

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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Please. Stop trying to avoid the issue by playing the victim. Note the sentence I wrote ends with a question mark (?). It was a question. You can either answer it by outlining what was better about you, or you can say nothing was better about you. But playing the victim card is not an option. :)

    Please. No victim card.

    The good pleasure of His will. Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
     
    #101 TCassidy, Apr 29, 2017
  2. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    T.C:

    Your question is wrong-headed, but not exactly because it's a red-herring.
    It's wrong because it assumes the truth of precisely what Jon denies:

    Namely, that any set of factors act as sufficient guarantors for decision-making.

    Jon (and anyone who believes in LFW) denies that decisions are always necessitated by pre-existing conditions.

    You are right, he "can't" answer it...because whether or not it even makes sense to ask "why"...is precisely the point at issue.

    Of course the question makes sense to you, because you believe that decisions are necessitated by pre-existing conditions.....Jon denies that.

    He isn't wrong, nor is his view threatened, nor is his Soteriology at peril because he has absolutely no idea "why" his neighbor chose differently. It would only be a problem if YOU couldn't answer it.

    You are effectively asking a non-determinist what determined a decision.
     
    #102 HeirofSalvation, Apr 29, 2017
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  3. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    #103 HeirofSalvation, Apr 29, 2017
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  4. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    You do not get to divide Christendom into Reformed and Arminians. When someone espouses a view outside of your false dichotomy, "But Arminians think this..." is not a rebuttal.
     
    #104 Rob_BW, Apr 29, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
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  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Where in my post did I say anything about what I believe? I didn't. I place all my security in what God the Father, His Son, and the Holy Spirit have done and continue to do.
     
    #105 Squire Robertsson, Apr 29, 2017
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  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    mugwumps....adherents to mugwumpism :D

    ...can't decide even in these simpler terms:

    What Side Of The Fence Are You?

    Synergism: the doctrine that the human will cooperates with the Holy Ghost in the work of regeneration.

    Monergism: the doctrine that the Holy Ghost acts independently of the human will in the work of regeneration.
     
    #106 kyredneck, Apr 29, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Whatever the "bit", you've asked for it by choosing such an avatar.
     
    #107 kyredneck, Apr 29, 2017
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  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Lol, yea, he has to stay, too entertaining, and actually seems to pretty much know his stuff....
     
    #108 kyredneck, Apr 29, 2017
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  9. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    This is not directed at you, but I question the intelligence of anyone who thinks that my avatar is an accurate representation of my appearance.

    People need to lighten up regarding such things.
     
    #109 Rolfe, Apr 29, 2017
  10. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Wait, you mean you aren't a pilot?
     
    #110 Rob_BW, Apr 29, 2017
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  11. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    Sometimes I wonder on bad days. *laugh*
     
    #111 Rolfe, Apr 29, 2017
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  12. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    Friend of mine had a vanity plate for his auto. Was "Pileit". Appropriate some days. :)
     
    #112 Rolfe, Apr 29, 2017
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  13. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Indeed, in your picture you're wearing far too much make-up...
     
    #113 MennoSota, Apr 29, 2017
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  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Come on calv, put the gloves on and get in the ring...

    Whatever happened to "sticks and stones will break my bones..." :)

    Some of us play "devil's advocate".

    True, some of us are better equipped than others for the job :Biggrin

    HankD
     
    #114 HankD, Apr 29, 2017
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Don't know, I keep FLOP-FLIPPING oops, I mean FLIP-FLOPPING :Cool

    HankD
     
    #115 HankD, Apr 29, 2017
  16. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps he sees now that one does not need to fully subscribe to Reformed Theology to know that one is secure.
     
    #116 Rolfe, Apr 29, 2017
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Maybe.

    HankD
     
    #117 HankD, Apr 29, 2017
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Don't ever misrepresent others who do not believe as you do as you have been doing. What you have been doing is in fact going off your own understanding. It is foolish to assert, imply or anything else that reformed folks cannot be wrong because they are the only one's with pure motives and control over their thoughts, as you have said. Jumping on a board as a newbie and slamming others as you have is childish.
     
    #118 Revmitchell, Apr 29, 2017
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The five points are the rebuttal to the five articles, but you are missing the fact that Arminianism is of Calvinistic trajectory (it is Calvinism except where it departed).

    There are people who believe men are born with the ability to turn to God if afforded the opportunity. This is a denial of Arminianism by definition (it denies articles 3 and 4). But it is also a denial of Calvinism (it denies total depravity).

    My argument is that all five points or articles are essential to the theology of each camp, otherwise they would not have been expressed. A denial of one of them is a denial of that theological system. There is no such thing as a 4 point Calvinist. A Calvinist who is moderate is moderate not because he rejects an essential doctrine of Calvinism but because of his stance on how that doctrine is defined. If you reject Limited Atonement then you are not a Calvinist because you reject Calvinism as it has been defined. There is no such thing as a 4 Article Arminian either. If you reject total depravity as defined in the articles of the Remonstrants, then you reject Arminianism. If you reject the idea of predestination as defined by Arminianism, then you do not belong in that camp.
     
    #119 JonC, Apr 29, 2017
  20. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    But your devil is a Barney Fife devil, Hank.
     
    #120 MennoSota, Apr 29, 2017
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