BrianT
[QUOTEOur salvation can only be lost by commiting a mortal sin (see 1 John 5) such as murder, adultery, fornication, etc., which entails our free choice to reject the gift of God's grace. This is what the Prodigal Son did in Jesus' parable recounted in Luke, Chapter 15.[/QUOTE]
1. Your theology is biases, for it is based on a covenantal theology which the Scripture does not teach.
2. This is why the prodigal son was never lost. He remained a son. He was born a son and was never disinherited. He was backslidden, but not disinherited. He was never lost. He did not lose his salvation. He may have lost some reward; fellowship with his Father. But he never lost the relationship that he had with his father—that of being a son of his father.
3. Your understanding of 1John 5:16,17 is flawed. It does not teach mortal sin. There is only one kind of sin. Sin is sin. Sin is a transgression of the law (1John 3:4). The Bible defines it there for us. James 2:10 says that all sin is wrong. It is just as bad to lie as it is to murder. The consequence may be different but both are sin.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
--Sin is sin. There is no difference between venial and mortal.
James 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
--No where does it say mortal. That is a misinterpretation put in there by the Catholic Church. It says: “There is a sin unto death.” The question is: What is a sin unto death?
Annanias and Sapphira commited a sin unto death.
Those mentioned in 1Cor.11:30 committed a sin unto death.
God’s Spirit will strive only so long with the wickedness of a believer. If he continues in his sin God may take him out of this world by death. Pray for individuals that continue in sin that they may repent of their sin, lest God does bring a sentence of death upon them. It is better that they die by the hand of God’s judgement and their life shortened on this earth, lest they continue in their sin and do even more damage to the cause of Christ and face an even greater judgement at the judgement seat of Christ. It is not speaking of a specific sin. It is talking of any sin that brings reproach to the name of Christ. In 1Cor.11, it was the abuse of the Lord’s Table that brought the hand of judgement upon the Corinthians, and some were killed by God because of it. They did not lose their salvation. They died an early death, and went to Heaven.
The entire chapter warns against the error of false teachers. Beware of false teachers and their teaching. If they are led away in some false doctrine it does not mean that they will lose their salvation. The Galatians were led away into false doctrine but Paul never hints that they lost their salvation. They were led away by the false teaching of the Judaizing teachers, but they were still saved. These believer had to contend with those that were: “unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (3:16) Their salvation was hardly in question. If it was Paul would not have exhorted them to “grow in the grace and knowledge of Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,” right in the very same verse.
[QUOTEBrethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that ... he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. (James 5:19,20)[/QUOTE]
See above. You already referred to this verse.
Look at the context; at some of the other verses in the same passage:
5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
See what he says just a few verses later on:
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The gifts and calling of God are without repentance. God will not change his mind. Our salvation is sure. He will not take away eternal life.
Verse 22 is speaking of a contrast between Israel and the Gentile believers. Israel has fallen away for a time. But in the end they will be saved as a nation (verse 26). But now the Gentiles (us) have obtained mercy. There is somewhat of another contrast here. Those that do not continue in the goodness of God are not true believers in the first place. See 1John 2:19.
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
These are hardly believers. They are false teachers. They are not even saved people that Peter is talking about. They haven’t lost their salvation. They never had any salvation to begin with.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
A true believer, as noted above, will continue in the faith. Paul uses the example from the Old Testament, that not everyone from the Old Testament was a believer. Not every one continued in the faith. Not everyone made it to the promised land. Continuance in the faith is not a prerequisite to being a believer; it is a result. A believer WILL continue in the faith. He will persevere in the faith. That is a given.
DHK
Carson
[QUOTEOur salvation can only be lost by commiting a mortal sin (see 1 John 5) such as murder, adultery, fornication, etc., which entails our free choice to reject the gift of God's grace. This is what the Prodigal Son did in Jesus' parable recounted in Luke, Chapter 15.[/QUOTE]
1. Your theology is biases, for it is based on a covenantal theology which the Scripture does not teach.
2. This is why the prodigal son was never lost. He remained a son. He was born a son and was never disinherited. He was backslidden, but not disinherited. He was never lost. He did not lose his salvation. He may have lost some reward; fellowship with his Father. But he never lost the relationship that he had with his father—that of being a son of his father.
3. Your understanding of 1John 5:16,17 is flawed. It does not teach mortal sin. There is only one kind of sin. Sin is sin. Sin is a transgression of the law (1John 3:4). The Bible defines it there for us. James 2:10 says that all sin is wrong. It is just as bad to lie as it is to murder. The consequence may be different but both are sin.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
--Sin is sin. There is no difference between venial and mortal.
James 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
--No where does it say mortal. That is a misinterpretation put in there by the Catholic Church. It says: “There is a sin unto death.” The question is: What is a sin unto death?
Annanias and Sapphira commited a sin unto death.
Those mentioned in 1Cor.11:30 committed a sin unto death.
God’s Spirit will strive only so long with the wickedness of a believer. If he continues in his sin God may take him out of this world by death. Pray for individuals that continue in sin that they may repent of their sin, lest God does bring a sentence of death upon them. It is better that they die by the hand of God’s judgement and their life shortened on this earth, lest they continue in their sin and do even more damage to the cause of Christ and face an even greater judgement at the judgement seat of Christ. It is not speaking of a specific sin. It is talking of any sin that brings reproach to the name of Christ. In 1Cor.11, it was the abuse of the Lord’s Table that brought the hand of judgement upon the Corinthians, and some were killed by God because of it. They did not lose their salvation. They died an early death, and went to Heaven.
“beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.”
The entire chapter warns against the error of false teachers. Beware of false teachers and their teaching. If they are led away in some false doctrine it does not mean that they will lose their salvation. The Galatians were led away into false doctrine but Paul never hints that they lost their salvation. They were led away by the false teaching of the Judaizing teachers, but they were still saved. These believer had to contend with those that were: “unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (3:16) Their salvation was hardly in question. If it was Paul would not have exhorted them to “grow in the grace and knowledge of Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,” right in the very same verse.
[QUOTEBrethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that ... he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. (James 5:19,20)[/QUOTE]
See above. You already referred to this verse.
You have taken this verse right out if its context Carson, and tried to make it mean something that it doesn’t mean. In plain English look what it says: (I’ll reword it for you) IF you ATTEMPT to be justified by the law, you have become estranged from Christ, and have fallen from Grace. This is a hypothetical and conditional statement. Paul is saying that IF your salvation is dependent on keeping the law (which it is not), then you are fallen from grace, then you are separated from Christ.
Look at the context; at some of the other verses in the same passage:
5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
This is another verse taken out of its context. The context of chapters 9, 10, and 11 discuss God’s dealing with the nation of Israel.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
See what he says just a few verses later on:
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The gifts and calling of God are without repentance. God will not change his mind. Our salvation is sure. He will not take away eternal life.
Verse 22 is speaking of a contrast between Israel and the Gentile believers. Israel has fallen away for a time. But in the end they will be saved as a nation (verse 26). But now the Gentiles (us) have obtained mercy. There is somewhat of another contrast here. Those that do not continue in the goodness of God are not true believers in the first place. See 1John 2:19.
Why do you persist in taking verses out of context? Who are these verses talking about Carson? Read the context. Look at the preceding verses:
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
These are hardly believers. They are false teachers. They are not even saved people that Peter is talking about. They haven’t lost their salvation. They never had any salvation to begin with.
Paul is speaking of the bride that Christ will present to the Father “holy and blameless, and above reproach in His sight.” Then he says if you continue in the faith. Every true believer will continue in the faith. That doesn’t mean that they will not sin; but they will continue. They will not lose their salvation. I have no fear of ever losing my salvation and I can make the dogmatic statement that I never will. I will continue in my faith.
Paul was writing to those who were thinking of returning to Judaism. The people that he was writing to may have been a mixed multitude: that is part Jewish believers and part Jewish unbelievers Some of them had heard plainly the Word of God, and the plan of salvation. They had “tasted the heavenly gift,” a phrase possibly referring to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. If that be the case, there may come a time in a person’s life when they have so spurned the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and go back to their old religious system (Judaism) that God’s Spirit will no longer strive with them. It is not talking about losing one’s salvation. It is speaking of those who have clearly rejected Christ, having had the great opportunity to do so in the past.
Every believer is an overcomer (1John 5:4). Every believer’s name is written in the Lamb’s book of life. Every believer’s name will never be blotted out of that book. This was reassurance to the believers at Sardis, and encouragement for them to continue in the faith.
In the context of this verse, the wilful sin is the rejection of Jesus Christ. There is no more sacrifice for sin other than receiving Him as Saviour. This is what the Book of Hebrews is all about. Christ is our only sacrifice.
Again this is an admonition to those that did not believe. He also compared them to the unbelieving Israelites. He told them not to harden their hearts against God in unbelief in the same passage.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
A true believer, as noted above, will continue in the faith. Paul uses the example from the Old Testament, that not everyone from the Old Testament was a believer. Not every one continued in the faith. Not everyone made it to the promised land. Continuance in the faith is not a prerequisite to being a believer; it is a result. A believer WILL continue in the faith. He will persevere in the faith. That is a given.
DHK
