If You Had Your Druthers...

[RipponRedeaux]

which would you choose. 1) to hear substandard sermons by a KJVO preacher Or, solid sermons by a pastor using the NIV?

Of course it's a hypothetical. But it's useful to ponder the implications.

Now, now, don't get your feathers ruffled. I am not speaking of KJV preferred. I'm talking about KJVO to the extent that many KJVO churches have that distinctive plastered on a sign in front of the building. No other churches have signs which hold up a particular Bible Translation as a doctrinal distinctive.

No other churches devote sermon time to denouncing other Bible translations.

So if the NIV pastor is delivering sermons in an expository manner, and the KJVO preacher is not, wouldn't that give you pause?

 

[SovereignGrace]

NIV

 

[rockytopva]

A man led by the Holy Spirit will not preach a substandard sermon.

 

[rockytopva]

Edit.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

I'd likely choose the KJV pastor. I'm wary of most things modern as our culture has seeped into every crack of Evangelicalism to some degree or another. Listening to a sermon from a different translation often means that I need to not only listen to the sermon, but I also have to compare what the NIV says vs the KJV. I don't trust the NIV.

Now, if the choice was between the KJVO vs the NKJV or ESV then I'd pick the NKJV or ESV pastor.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

I'd likely choose the KJV pastor. I'm wary of most things modern as our culture has seeped into every crack of Evangelicalism to some degree or another. Listening to a sermon from a different translation often means that I need to not only listen to the sermon, but I also have to compare what the NIV says vs the KJV. I don't trust the NIV.

Now, if the choice was between the KJVO vs the NKJV or ESV then I'd pick the NKJV or ESV pastor.

I agree with you on one point you made. I prefer to use a translation other than the one the preacher uses to get more out of it.

If you compare the NIV with the KJV you will find a lot of archaic expressions and poor English. The latter is no standard. If you compare the two versions --well what do you know? They read differently --because they are not the same translation!

You said that if the choice was between the KJVO and the NIV you'd pick the KJVO pastor. What notable passages would you cite in which the message and meaning of the ESV is so radically different than that of the KJV? If you can't think of any than you are just blowing smoke.

Another thing I had mentioned in the OP, are you comfortable with a pastor denouncing other Bible versions when he is supposed to be driven to the text and delivering a faithful message to believers?

 

[RipponRedeaux]

It's too late to change it now. I meant :
What notable passages would you cite in which the message and meaning of the NIV is so radically different than that of the KJV?

 

[Salty]

A man led by the Holy Spirit will not preach a substandard sermon.

and just because someone is KJO - does not mean he is led by the Holy Spirit.
and if you preach that the KJ is the perfect Word of God and all others are perversions - then you are not led by the Holy Spirit.

 

[37818]

which would you choose. 1) to hear substandard sermons by a pastor using the NIV Or, solid sermons by a KJVO preacher?

 

[Salty]

which would you choose. 1) to hear substandard sermons by a pastor using the NIV Or, solid sermons by a KJVO preacher?

I suppose the answer would be the KJO - but when half of the message is about KJO, I'm liable to walk out and before I do- I just might say something. .......

 

[RipponRedeaux]

And just to be clear, the choice is between a substandard KJVO preacher and an expositional, solid sermon by a preacher using the NIV. I don't mean a KJV preacher, but a KJVO preacher. A KJVO preacher normally includes denunciations of other Bible versions and extolls the KJV during the course of his message. Not only is valuable time wasted, but the people are being led astray.

 

[rockytopva]

I am a supporter of the bbnradio.org, which most stuff is preached out of the KJV, including Alexander Scourby’s KJV read. I do attend a men’s Bible study where the leader will read from another version. I do not criticize the man, but do listen in a little more intently wondering what that version ended up doing to the sacred text.

 

[kyredneck]

What notable passages would you cite in which the message and meaning of the NIV is so radically different than that of the KJV?

The 'faith of God/Jesus Christ' passages as opposed to 'my faith in God/Jesus Christ' passages'.

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:2 KJV

3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Ro 3 KJV

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 2 KJV

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Gal 3:22 KJV

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Phil 3:9 KJV

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12 KJV

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:8 KJV

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@Van's post - here - gives me hope that some of the newer translations are trying to get it right:

"Romans 3:22 namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction,

Romans 3:26 This was also to demonstrate his righteousness in the present time, so that he would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus’ faithfulness.

Galatians 2:16 yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by the faithfulness of Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body,I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture imprisoned everything and everyone under sin so that the promise could be given – because of the faithfulness of Jesus Christ – to those who believe.

Ephesians 3:12 in whom we have boldness and confident access to God because of Christ’s faithfulness.

Philippians 3:9 and be found in him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by way of Christ’s faithfulness – a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ’s faithfulness,

These NET rendering seem to present the actual intended message, rather than ambiguity or error."

 

[37818]

I suppose the answer would be the KJO - but when half of the message is about KJO, I'm liable to walk out and before I do- I just might say something. .......

Actually there are more than two issues which this thread makes. The what was effectively made the more important issue was the "solid sermon" over what can by some to be regarded as two bad views of the word of God, making this latter issue less important. Either way, the OP or as I swapped it, the KJVO being the worst of the two choices regarding the text issue. And I personally happen to choose, the KJV over most of the modern versions - which is another issue.

 

[John of Japan]

The worst sermon can produce the best results, as witness how Spurgeon got saved.

The best sermon is one led and empowered by the Holy Spirit which proclaims the truth as correctly translated.

 

[Salty]

The worst sermon can produce the best results, as witness how Spurgeon got saved.

The best sermon is one led and empowered by the Holy Spirit which proclaims the truth as correctly translated.

There are times when I thought my message was not that good yet someone would come up and say how blessed there were with that message I preached.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

The what was effectively made the more important issue was the "sold sermon" over what can by some to be regarded as two bad views of the word of God, making this latter issue less important. Either way, the OP or as I swapped it, the KJVO being the worst of the two choices regarding the text issue. And I personally happen to choose, the KJV over most of the modern versions - which is another issue.

Could you please reword the above? It is difficult to understand. And I had said 'solid sermon' not 'sold sermon.'

 

[37818]

Could you please reword the above? It is difficult to understand. And I had said 'solid sermon' not 'sold sermon.'

It has passed the allowed time to edit said post. Nevertheless "sold" was a typo for the intended word "solid."


ADMIN NOTE: I have corrected that in post # 14

 

[RipponRedeaux]

kyredneck, I will respond to your post.

You prefer in Hebrews 12:2 "Jesus the author and finisher of our faith."
The LEB and NASB have "The originator and perfecter of/the faith."
The NET,NIV, CSB, CEB, ISV, Mounce and NRSV have "The pioneer and perfecter of/our faith."
WEB : "the author and perfecter of faith."

For Romans 3:3 you prefer : faith of God.
Whereas the NIV, NET, MOUNCE, LEB, EHV ISV, CEB, CSB, NASB and WEB have : God's faithfulness.
The ESV has : the faithfulness of God.

Romans 3:22. You like : faith of Jesus Christ
The CSB, EHV, ESV, LEB, MOUNCE, NASB, NLT, NIV, NRSV and WEB have : faith in Jesus Christ
The CEB and NET have : faithfulness of Jesus Christ

Galatians 2:16. You like : the faith of Jesus Christ
The CSB, EHV, ESV, LEB, MOUNCE, NASB, NLT, NIV, NRSV and WEB have : faith in Jesus Christ
The CEB and NET have : the faithfulness of Jesus Christ

Gal. 2:20. You like faith of the Son of God.
The CSB, EHV, ESV, LEB, MOUNCE, NASB, NIV, NLT, NRSV and WEB have : faith in the Son of God
The CEB has : the faithfulness of God's Son
The NET and ISV have : the faithfulness of the Son of God

Ga. 3:22. You like : faith of Jesus Christ.
The CSB, EHV, ESV, LEB, MOUNCE, NASB, NIV, NRSV and WEB have : faith in Jesus Christ
The CEB and NET have : the faithfulness of Jesus Christ

Phil. 3:9. You like : faith of Christ.
The CSB, EHV, ESV, LEB, MOUNCE, NASB, NIV, NLT, NRSV and WEB have : faith in Christ.
The CEB has : faithfulness of Christ
The NET has : Christ's faithfulness

Rev. 14:12. You like faith of Jesus. The NRSV and WEB agree with you.
The CSB, EHV, ESV, LEB, MOUNCE, NASB, NET and NLT have : faith in Jesus
NIV : remain faithful to Jesus

As for Eph. 2:8, just about all translations have the wording of the KJV or very close to it. So that passage is not at issue at all.

Most of your objections to modern versions and the NIV in your list deal with genitives. I know little about that subject aside from my reading. But what I have found is that it's nothing to get upset over. There are various interpretations. I can furnish some quotes on the topic later.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

It has passed the allowed time to edit said post. Nevertheless "sold" was a typo for the intended word "solid."


ADMIN NOTE: I have corrected that in post # 14

Just do as I asked. Reword what you were trying to say.