The Scribe said:
Yes, I did because he's wrong. 2 Corinthians 7:9-10 is clear on this subject.
Well, I somehow lost the response I was composing, so I've had to start over, and try again.
I fully agree that II Cor. 7:8-10 is clear on this subject.
However, I am also going to assume that you may not be aware that there are three different words rendered as some form of repentance in the passage, as seen in the KJV, which I believe is the version you normally use, if my memory serves. Here is the passage we are discussing, plus some wider context, as rendered in the NKJV, the version I normally use and carry. I will be emphasizing and subscripting some words, in this passage, with a bit of thumbnail commentary, not having the time to actually give it all the attention it deserves
6 Nevertheless God, who comforts the downcast, comforted us by the coming of Titus, 7 and not only by his coming, but also by the consolation with which he was comforted in you, when he told us of your earnest desire, your mourning, your zeal for me, so that I rejoiced even more.
8 For even if I made you sorry[a] with my letter, I do not regret[b] it; though I did regret[b] it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry[a], though only for a while. 9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry[a], but that your sorrow[a] led to repentance[c]. For you were made sorry[a] in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow[a] produces[e] repentance[c] leading to salvation, not to be regretted[d]; but the sorrow[a] of the world produces[e] death. 11 For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed[a] in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter. 12 Therefore, although I wrote to you, I did not do it for the sake of him who had done the wrong, nor for the sake of him who suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear to you.(NKJV)
6 αλλ ο παρακαλων τους ταπεινους παρεκαλεσεν ημας ο θεος εν τη παρουσια τιτου
7 ου μονον δε εν τη παρουσια αυτου αλλα και εν τη παρακλησει η παρεκληθη εφ υμιν αναγγελλων ημιν την υμων επιποθησιν τον υμων οδυρμον τον υμων ζηλον υπερ εμου ωστε με μαλλον χαρηναι
8 οτι ει και ελυπησα[a] υμας εν τη επιστολη ου μεταμελομαι[b] ει και μετεμελομην[b] βλεπω γαρ οτι η επιστολη εκεινη ει και προς ωραν ελυπησεν[a] υμας
9 νυν χαιρω ουχ οτι ελυπηθητε[a] αλλ οτι ελυπηθητε[a] εις μετανοιαν[c] ελυπηθητε[a] γαρ κατα θεον ινα εν μηδενι ζημιωθητε εξ ημων
10 η γαρ κατα θεον λυπη[a] μετανοιαν[c] εις σωτηριαν αμεταμελητον[d] κατεργαζεται[e] η δε του κοσμου λυπη[a] θανατον κατεργαζεται[e]
11 ιδου γαρ αυτο τουτο το κατα θεον λυπηθηναι[a] υμας ποσην κατειργασατο υμιν σπουδην αλλα απολογιαν αλλα αγανακτησιν αλλα φοβον αλλα επιποθησιν αλλα ζηλον αλλ εκδικησιν εν παντι συνεστησατε εαυτους αγνους ειναι εν τω πραγματι
12 αρα ει και εγραψα υμιν ουχ εινεκεν του αδικησαντος ουδε εινεκεν του αδικηθεντος αλλ εινεκεν του φανερωθηναι την σπουδην υμων την υπερ ημων προς υμας ενωπιον του θεου (TR1550)
Note the highlighted and subscripted words. (For the benefit of any lurkers, also note, FTR, that sorrow is not the same as repentance, although I grant that, unlike some others I've seen and met,
The Scribe has not attempted to 'define' "repent" as 'to be sorry for one's sins'.) I will note that the KJV has 3 of the 4 words found in the NT, that have anything to do with 'repent" in this passage.
It seems like fair exegesis to specifically cross-reference this passage with what Paul previously wrote in I Cor. 5, where he wrote against the sexual immorality of the individual who "had his father's wife", and committing this one to Satan for judgment. At least a good number see this to be the case, and I agree with that.
Nevertheless, the principle is, I believe, far broader than this specifically.
The footnoted words in English and the Greek root words, subscripted above, with some meanings,are as follows:
[a] - sorry, sorrow, sorrowed, are all the root word "
λυπη" and this is rendered accurately, here.
- regret, rendered "repent" here in the KJV, is the word "μεταμελομαι", and carries the idea of 'to care afterwards (or differently)'. This word has more to do with the emotions, than does the root of the next word to here follow, and has the implication of 'to feel differently' in its essence. Contrast that with -
[c] - repentance - the noun form "μετανοια", with the verb form being that of "μετανοεω". In the noun form, this refers to a change of mind, or thinking. The verb carries the idea of 'to think afterwards (or differently)'. These words are used having to do with salvation, in the NT. The previous word is not used this way, and is, in fact, only used 6 times in the NT. One of those has to do with Judas. He regretted, but he did not change his mind. One cannot "rue their way" to eternal life, any more than one can "do their way" to eternal life.
[d] - "not to be regretted" - "αμεταμελητος" is a word that carries the idea of 'irrevocable', and is here rendered in an unfortunate way, IMO. It is only found here and in Rom. 11:29. There the NIV, NASB, AMP, ESV, NKJV, HCSB, NIV-UK, and TNIV all properly render the word as "irrevocable", just as I wish the versions did here, for this a far more accurate rendering.
[e] - produces - "κατεργαζομαι" - 'works out' or accurately rendered as produces. I list this word, as it is the only really questionable word in this passage from the TR vs. W/H renderings. I did not give a long detailed check after locating this word in my own hard copies, and a quick read on-line in Bible Gateway, but was more than satisfied with the reading as found in the MT. The alternate word does not really change anything here, IMO, for it too, is from the same Greek root, meaning work or produce. Nevertheless, I think the TR is fully accurate, here, and honesty compels me to say this.
Likewise, I would render II Cor. 7:10 as follows - "For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to irrevocable salvation; but worldly sorrow produces death." Basically consistent with the NKJV, which I quoted.
It's about four hours past my bedtime, so G'nite, all! The editing and typing misteaks will all just have to stay, this time. :sleeping_2:
Ed
