Improvement of the NIV

[Van]

1) It should translate the same word or phrase meaning consistently.
2) It should minimize translating different source language words or phrases into the same English word or phrase.
3) It should not alter the meaning of the text by deletion or addition or revision of word or phrase meaning.

Specifics:
1) Translate monogenes as unique or one of a kind, not one and only.
2) Change "world" to "mankind" in John's writings.
3) Change James 2:5 to read "...poor to the world, yet rich in faith...
4) Change 2 Thessalonians 2:13 from "to be saved" to "for salvation."
5) Change 1 Corinthians 2:14 from "...the things that come from the Spirit of God..." to "some of things of the Spirit of God."

 

[Van]

Flaws found in the NIV

1) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read, "therefore" *
2) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger." *
3) John 1:16 should read, "...grace after grace."
4) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."
5) Acts of the Apostles 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.
6) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."*
7) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
8) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
9) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.*
10) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."
11) 2 Thessalonians 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life" *
12) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."*
13) Titus 3:4 love should read, "love for mankind." *
14) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read, "offering."
15) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."
16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."
17) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation." *
18) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
19) Revelation 13:8; 17:8 from the creation should read, "since the foundation." And Matthew 25:34 and Hebrews 4:3 since the creation should read "since the foundation."
20) Revelation 22:21 be with God's people should read, "be with all."
21) 1 Samuel 15:19 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
22) 1 Samuel 15:20 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
23) 1 Samuel 15:22 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to all of you in Christ Jesus."
25) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."
26) 1 Corinthians 6:19 "your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you" should read "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in all of you.
27) Matthew 3:11 should read, ""As for me, I baptize all of you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize some of you with the Holy Spirit and others with fire.
28) Matthew 11:12 should read, ""Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens has been forcefully sought, and forceful people are laying hold of it."
29) 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not say all things that come from the Spirit, therefore the verse should read: The person without the Spirit does not accept some of the things of the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit,
30) Titus 2:11 "Offer" has been added which alters the message, the verse should read: For the grace of God, who provides salvation, has appeared to all people.
31) 1 Corinthians 3:1: Siblings I could not speak to you as people with the Spirit, but as to people without the Spirit, as babes in Christ who have yet to learn from the Spirit.
32) Acts of the Apostles 13:48: When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and as many as accepted direction to eternal life believed.
33) Revelation 14:3, redeemed should read purchased.


Examples 1, 9, 13, 21, 22, and 23 document omission of words or parts of words.
Examples 5, 15, 16, 25, 29 and 30 document addition of words.
Examples 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20, 26 and 33 document replacement of the inspired word with a different word or different words.
Example 24 and 28 documents a translation devoid of meaning, just an array of disconnected phrases.
Example 27 clarifies the confusion produced by the Greek plural "you."
Examples 31 and 32 present an unambiguous correction to the NIV translations.

When translators "add" words or phrases, "omit" words or phrases, or translate words or phrases outside of the historical-grammatical meaning unnecessarily, in order to make doctrine driven choices, they are presenting a flawed translation in my opinion. All translations have flaws, the product of fallible people, but the NIV flaws seem abundant to me.

 

[Yeshua1]

Flaws found in the NIV

1) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read, "therefore" *
2) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger." *
3) John 1:16 should read, "...grace after grace."
4) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."
5) Acts of the Apostles 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.
6) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."*
7) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
8) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
9) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.*
10) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."
11) 2 Thessalonians 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life" *
12) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."*
13) Titus 3:4 love should read, "love for mankind." *
14) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read, "offering."
15) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."
16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."
17) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation." *
18) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
19) Revelation 13:8; 17:8 from the creation should read, "since the foundation." And Matthew 25:34 and Hebrews 4:3 since the creation should read "since the foundation."
20) Revelation 22:21 be with God's people should read, "be with all."
21) 1 Samuel 15:19 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
22) 1 Samuel 15:20 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
23) 1 Samuel 15:22 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to all of you in Christ Jesus."
25) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."
26) 1 Corinthians 6:19 "your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you" should read "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in all of you.
27) Matthew 3:11 should read, ""As for me, I baptize all of you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize some of you with the Holy Spirit and others with fire.
28) Matthew 11:12 should read, ""Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens has been forcefully sought, and forceful people are laying hold of it."
29) 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not say all things that come from the Spirit, therefore the verse should read: The person without the Spirit does not accept some of the things of the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit,
30) Titus 2:11 "Offer" has been added which alters the message, the verse should read: For the grace of God, who provides salvation, has appeared to all people.
31) 1 Corinthians 3:1: Siblings I could not speak to you as people with the Spirit, but as to people without the Spirit, as babes in Christ who have yet to learn from the Spirit.
32) Acts of the Apostles 13:48: When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and as many as accepted direction to eternal life believed.
33) Revelation 14:3, redeemed should read purchased.


Examples 1, 9, 13, 21, 22, and 23 document omission of words or parts of words.
Examples 5, 15, 16, 25, 29 and 30 document addition of words.
Examples 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20, 26 and 33 document replacement of the inspired word with a different word or different words.
Example 24 and 28 documents a translation devoid of meaning, just an array of disconnected phrases.
Example 27 clarifies the confusion produced by the Greek plural "you."
Examples 31 and 32 present an unambiguous correction to the NIV translations.

When translators "add" words or phrases, "omit" words or phrases, or translate words or phrases outside of the historical-grammatical meaning unnecessarily, in order to make doctrine driven choices, they are presenting a flawed translation in my opinion. All translations have flaws, the product of fallible people, but the NIV flaws seem abundant to me.

Not my translation of choice, but do not think as bad as you make it out to be here!

 

[Van]

Not my translation of choice, but do not think as bad as you make it out to be here!

Y1, why post "taint so" over and over without any basis.

 

[Rippon2]

Van Spammer at it again. He has posted the very same thing year after year because his spam just wasn't accepted by the members here. Perhaps he thinks his 5th time will be the charm.

 

[Van]

Anyone who think post #2 is the very same as some previous post is wrong. Over time the list is updated. The NIV is flawed, and many more flaws could be added because the NIV translates willy nilly.

 

[Van]

The NIV translates different places as if they were the same place. For example, the NIV translates Gehenna 12 times as "hell" even though hell might refer to Tartaroo (according to Greek mythology, a pit way below Hades). Compare 2 Peter 2:4 with Matthew 5:22 where two very different Greek words are both rendered as hell. Add item 34 to the list of flaws...

 

[Van]

Just for fun, let us follow one Greek word into the NIV abyss of obfuscation.

Hebrews 13:1, (ESV) "Let brotherly love continue." The Greek word rendered "brotherly love" is "philadelphia."

So we can start with the NIV rendering of Hebrews 13:1, "Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters." First note how many more words the NIV uses than the more literal translations. Rather than "brotherly love" or love of brethren we get "loving one another as brothers and sisters." But does the NIV stick with this rendering? Nope.

In Romans 12:10, "philadelphia" is translated simply as "love" and not brotherly love or love of brethren. This then would be the flaw of omitting part of a word meaning.

In 1 Thessalonians 4:9, "philadelphia" is translated as "love for one another" which is a shorted but similar rendering as in Hebrews 13:1.

Now in 1 Peter 1:22 we get "love for each other."

And finally in 2 Peter 1:17 we get "mutual affection" so out of five opportunities, the NIV saw the need to go with 5 different English renderings to convey the same meaning.

The meaning contextually in all five usages refers to the love Christians have for fellow Christians, siblings in Christ.
Thus "sibling love" could improve, clarify, and provide concordance.

 

[Rippon2]

30) Titus 2:11 "Offer" has been added which alters the message, the verse should read: For the grace of God, who provides salvation, has appeared to all people.

Most translations have "bringing salvation." Using the word "offers" has no material effect on the passage.

31) 1 Corinthians 3:1: Siblings I could not speak to you as people with the Spirit, but as to people without the Spirit, as babes in Christ who have yet to learn from the Spirit.

The use of the word "siblings" is unwise. The usage is quite frankly --ugly. The use of "brothers and sisters" though it a bit ungainly, is quite suitable.

32) Acts of the Apostles 13:48: When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and as many as accepted direction to eternal life believed.

Your rendering above is quite unorthodox. Where did you get that from?

 

[Rippon2]

33) Revelation 14:3, redeemed should read purchased.

The word "purchased" is okay, and it's used in a few translations. However the word "redeemed" is more descriptive of what transpired. The Lord didn't merely buy, or purchase them. The Lord bought them from a state of slavery into union with Him.

A number of other worthy translations agree with the NIV rendering :
CSB, ESV, ISV, Mounce, NET, NKJV, NLT, NRSV, WEB and Weymouth.

 

[Rippon2]

the NIV translates willy nilly.

That is a seriously sinful charge to make coming from someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Van]

This thread is about flaws in the NIV, and not about me.

Pay no attention to those who do not address the flaws, but seek to derail discussion of translation improvement by hurling false and vicious charges.

Returning to topic:
Just for fun, let us follow one Greek word into the NIV abyss of obfuscation.

Hebrews 13:1, (ESV) "Let brotherly love continue." The Greek word rendered "brotherly love" is "philadelphia."

So we can start with the NIV rendering of Hebrews 13:1, "Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters." First note how many more words the NIV uses than the more literal translations. Rather than "brotherly love" or love of brethren we get "loving one another as brothers and sisters." But does the NIV stick with this rendering? Nope.

In Romans 12:10, "philadelphia" is translated simply as "love" and not brotherly love or love of brethren. This then would be the flaw of omitting part of a word meaning.

In 1 Thessalonians 4:9, "philadelphia" is translated as "love for one another" which is a shorted but similar rendering as in Hebrews 13:1.

Now in 1 Peter 1:22 we get "love for each other."

And finally in 2 Peter 1:17 we get "mutual affection" so out of five opportunities, the NIV saw the need to go with 5 different English renderings to convey the same meaning.

The meaning contextually in all five usages refers to the love Christians have for fellow Christians, siblings in Christ.
Thus "sibling love" could improve, clarify, and provide concordance.

 

[Van]

I see in post #8 and #12 above I referenced 2 Peter 1:17 in error, the correct reference is 2 Peter 1:7.

Additionally, I looked at how the LEB handled these fiver verses, and found they translated our word as "brotherly love" all five times. Thus concordance is not beyond the reach of translation methodology.

Ask yourself why are not all those able to see how poorly translations deal with consistent word or phrase meaning renderings, demanding better efforts?

 

[Yeshua1]

That is a seriously sinful charge to make coming from someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.

The Niv is mot my translation of choice, but its not nearly as bad as Van thinks!

 

[Van]

Flaws found in the NIV

1) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read, "therefore" *
2) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger." *
3) John 1:16 should read, "...grace after grace."
4) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."
5) Acts of the Apostles 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.
6) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."*
7) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
8) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
9) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.*
10) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."
11) 2 Thessalonians 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life" *
12) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."*
13) Titus 3:4 love should read, "love for mankind." *
14) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read, "offering."
15) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."
16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."
17) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation." *
18) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
19) Revelation 13:8; 17:8 from the creation should read, "since the foundation." And Matthew 25:34 and Hebrews 4:3 since the creation should read "since the foundation."
20) Revelation 22:21 be with God's people should read, "be with all."
21) 1 Samuel 15:19 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
22) 1 Samuel 15:20 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
23) 1 Samuel 15:22 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to all of you in Christ Jesus."
25) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."
26) 1 Corinthians 6:19 "your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you" should read "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in all of you.
27) Matthew 3:11 should read, ""As for me, I baptize all of you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize some of you with the Holy Spirit and others with fire.
28) Matthew 11:12 should read, ""Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens has been forcefully sought, and forceful people are laying hold of it."
29) 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not say all things that come from the Spirit, therefore the verse should read: The person without the Spirit does not accept some of the things of the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit,
30) Titus 2:11 "Offer" has been added which alters the message, the verse should read: For the grace of God, who provides salvation, has appeared to all people.
31) 1 Corinthians 3:1: Siblings I could not speak to you as people with the Spirit, but as to people without the Spirit, as babes in Christ who have yet to learn from the Spirit.
32) Acts of the Apostles 13:48: When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and as many as accepted direction to eternal life believed.
33) Revelation 14:3, redeemed should read purchased.
34) 2 Peter 2:4, "hell" should be translated "tartarus."
35) Romans 12:10, "love" should be translated "sibling love"
36) Acts of the Apostles 28:2, unusual kindness should be "love for humankind."


Examples 1, 9, 13, 21, 22, 23, and 35 document omission of words or parts of words.
Examples 5, 15, 16, 25, 29 and 30 document addition of words.
Examples 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20, 26, 33 and 34 document replacement of the inspired word with a different word or different words.
Example 24 and 28 documents a translation devoid of meaning, just an array of disconnected phrases.
Example 27 clarifies the confusion produced by the Greek plural "you."
Examples 31 and 32 present an unambiguous correction to the NIV translations.

When translators "add" words or phrases, "omit" words or phrases, or translate words or phrases outside of the historical-grammatical meaning unnecessarily, in order to make doctrine driven choices, they are presenting a flawed translation in my opinion. All translations have flaws, the product of fallible people, but the NIV flaws seem abundant to me.

 

[Van]

Lets look at another set of NIV verses:

Acts of the Apostles 28:2
The islanders showed us unusual kindness. They built a fire and welcomed us all because it was raining and cold.
Showed us "love for humankind" would provide a better choice.

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, see item #13.

Do you suppose unusual kindness and kindness are share the same root meaning? Nope, unusual kindness is the NIV choice for "love of humankind" and kindness translates yet another Greek word. So we have translation of two dissimilar words as forms of kindness, and we have the meaning of love for humankind omitted in favor of just love, perhaps to hide the biblical truth God loves humankind.

The truth is no matter where you look, it is hard not to find flaws in the NIV translation choices.

 

[Rippon2]

Regarding Acts 2:4, just about all the translations have hell in that verse. The exceptions are the old HCSB, LEB and WEB. The NIV has a footnote of Tartarus as does the NET. Why you have isolated the NIV is because of your extreme bias, because it falls in step with the vast majority of translations. Your point of view doesn't make any kind of solid case whatsoever.

In Romans 12:10 you insist on sibling love, which is silly. I already pointed out in my post #9 how screwy your word choice is. Need I add that no translation has your oddity.

In Acts 28:2 no translation has your nonsensical rendering.

So Van, of two verses none have your desired word choice at all in Bible Gateway. Why you would single out the NIV for falling in line with all the other translations is an absurd enterprise on your part.

A single verse had the support of three translations favoring your rendering, but nearly 60 others did not follow your lead.

 

[Rippon2]

Van, I had asked in my post #9 where you got your irrational rendering. What is your source, or did you come up with it all alone with no supporting material as you usually do. I must say the wording is most certainly anti-biblical. Don't try to force-feed your aberrant theology into a make believe concoction.

 

[Van]

Van, I had asked in my post #9 where you got your irrational rendering. What is your source, or did you come up with it all alone with no supporting material as you usually do. I must say the wording is most certainly anti-biblical. Don't try to force-feed your aberrant theology into a make believe concoction.

On and on the poster attempts to change the subject from flaws in the NIV to me. Fiddlesticks.

Next we get the liberal argument, two wrongs make a right. If another translation also mistranslates the meaning of a word, why that makes it ok for the NIV. Hogwash.

Next the NIV deletes the type of affection in its Romans 12:10 rendering and does not include brotherly love as did 12 other versions. You could almost guess what they wanted to do away with was the masculine "brotherly" and were so incompetent they could not find "sibling" among the synonyms.

For you to claim Tartarus and Gehenna should be translated with the same English word (hell) demonstrates a lack of
concordance and transparency as a translation goal. They are different places and should not be conflated.

Finally the Greek word rendered "kindness" in one verse and love in another actually means "love for humankind (mankind) according to the Lexicons. Many translations render it as meaning love for mankind in Titus 3:4, at least 20 versions have words to that effect.

 

[Rippon2]

Van, Van, Van. You never learn.

You claim that 30 translations have "love for mankind" in Titus 3:4. I counted 9.
You need to improve your skills in arithmetic. Of those 9 only 4 are commonly known.

In Romans 12:10 the NIV doesn't use the words "brotherly love." Six commonly known versions use your preferred rendering. Some commonly known versions which do not use your wording :CSB, CEB, ISV, NABRE, NET, NLT and NRSV.

In Acts 28:2 you would prefer it to be rendered as "The islanders showed us love for humankind." That's a crazy translation. And it doesn't make any sense grammatically. Besides, the word "humankind" is ungainly. Not once does the NIV use it. And that's a plus for the NIV.

And may I point out that not a single translation has your rendering, of course. In previous posts you try to buttress your case by citing other versions which use your desired reading. But in this case, nada, nothing, zilch comes up to your defense.

As with Acts 28:2, Acts 13:48 comes to mind. I have asked you before, from what source is your preferred reading? It doesn't occur in any translation. Your errant theology is the likely source.